The issue/s over the control of copper production is varied. The discovery of artifacts made of copper/bronze alloys dated to the start of the 9th CBE along the trade routes between what is now Jorden and the Eufrates valley clearly indicated that advances in metalurgy was possessed by the Persians, particularly during the period during which the Greek incursion into the area had taken place. The Hellenic advances in metallurgical advancement is known to have passed that of the asysirans and the arab world post Solomon. The issue then is how did the advancement occur so fast and did the Hellans take part in it and with who. With an invading group providing new scientific approachs to mixing metals that were needed at the time and the close association between the Hellans and Arians it seems highly probable that control over the advanced medhods took place between the Persians and their Hebrew allies, expecially since the Persians and the Arab factions were ofter at odds as were the Hebrews and the Edomites. The history of the area is colse to the current relationship between the residents of the area. Therefore, if having to use the existing facts to determine who controled the production facilities in the 10th and 9th centuries BCE it would not be difficult to accept the control would have been in the most advance from a trade route position which is clearly the acient Hebrews post David under the economic direction of David. The advancement of this science would have continued advanceing under the guideance of the Arab educators who led the acient world in this area. However, when it came to science versus the accession of money the scientific world obtained more from the Arabs and world trade from their counterparts in Judeah.

Nope.  Not encumbant at all - one says "I believe", not "You must believe".  Anyone who tries to force another to accept his view/beliefs/theories/feelings should be avoided simply because he/she hasn't the manners to engage in civilized discourse.  As a human, free thinking is about the only truly free thing we have.  A truly free-thinking individual doesn't get upset over others' beliefs/opinions/ect.  Nor does that individual insult, demean or belittle others.  He engages in civilized discourse, or he politely disengages.  I know someone who believes in a bear spirit.  I know someone who practices Budhism.  I know a devout Orthodox Jew.  I know not a few devout atheists.  We cheerfully discuss, cuss and generally dissect our beliefs and opinions and i find myself invigorated by the discussion and the differences between us.  Not once have I been insulted, belittled or demeaned for my beliefs.  A little gentle mockery, perhaps, but nothing so heated that we cannot continue the discussion, which is the hallmark of civilized discourse.  I have found that I do not know everything, despite my own rather subjective opinion, and that I can learn something, even from people who believe in fairies.  Some people seem to see differing beliefs as a challenge to their own ideas, a challenge that must be met and defeated.  Fit you, maybe?

I'm not sure i caught all of your response rightasrain (perhaps the advertising to the right cut-off important parts of your text?)....Anyhow, even though your question was obviously sarcastic, i'm sure i will run for president one day (and i won't be bought or sold like the majority of our presidents have been...i'll actually look out for the everyday person's needs (even if their needs include the unreasoning faith in a god)...that's what public service is all about in my estimation).....

Anyhow, the last time i checked, it was encumbant upon those making claims that something exists to actually be able to substantiate those claims, and the belief in god is no different...

As i've stated before, if you do believe, and it helps you to be a better person in life, and you are also not pushing that belief on anybody else, then more power to you...whatever helps you justify your own existence...

To claim that i don't think for myself, or that the sheep who never question the concept of god do, is pretty ridiculous....perhaps they think independantly on other topics, but 9 times out of 10, they never even stop to question whether their belief in a god, if not their adherance to that belief, has any merit whatsoever...

My proof comes from the actual world we live in, wherein their is categorically not any god (or gods) of any sort...The real world is on full display for all to see...people just like to add their fantasies to it...please don't let yourself become part of the stereotype that is unsubstantiated belief or faith in something that doesn't exist...that would be very sad indeed (especially since i gave you credit for being a free thinker earlier)....

Wow! My spelling and grammar was awful in that last post.  Please forgive.

robilar5500

Ever thought abought running for President of the United States. Your rhetoric is outstanding to say the least.  But you can take it and two dollars and maybe buy a loaf of bread.  You are all over the fact that know one can produce facts and you have eloquently and (almost unnoticeably) put yourself in that same category. Apocraphies, independent thought-the actual original sin, exageration, hyperbole, absolute fiction, predator, prey....did not see any back-up (proof) for any of your independant thoughts.  Only your opinion.  The last time I checked, it was exactly independant thought that makes a Christian just that as well as independent thought allows the next person to accept or reject the same information.  Obviously you do not understand the concept of "Faith".  Even though you have faith in the hope that you are correct in your belief that there is no God.  Where is the difference?  They independently believe.... you independently do not. That's why they make chocolate AND vanilla.

KING SOLOMON’S TREASURES - MINES

I thought were discovered in the ground bellow the Church next to...WTC in New York City

- featured in NATIONAL TREASURE movie,

- Where The Treasures of Solomon were brought by the Knights?

- That’s why such of an expensive price….for the land, and for the small Greek Orthodox Church...at Ground Zero?

see the movie...

otherwise I don't understand its meanning: the Map on the back of The USA Constitution... NATIONAL TREASURE.

_____________________________________________________________________________

You make plenty of assertions in your post there HanginOn, and i agree Hell lies within you (as does it's contemporary: Heaven)...as for there being only One God for this world, what you really should say is there is only one god for you...the missing parts of the Bible are the "apocraphies", but really, we're talking about documents of questionable validity anyway)...Disobeying God is a by-product of independant thought (the actual original sin), and was the best thing that could ever have happened...that people have lost the spine to do so is the worst....Proving that a historical PERSON existed is not even close to validating the existence of god...and don't forget, the bible was written by actual humans, and is subject to exaggeration, hyperbole, and absolute fiction just as any other writngs can and often are....now as far as "supervisors" and "workers" goes, there will always be a few who are capable and desirous of leading the many (who are generally unwilling or incapable of doing so themselves)....however, i still prefer "predator" and "prey" (more realistic terms), and i feel sad for those of you who join the ranks of the latter...you willl never truly validate your belief's beyond the realm of pure conjecture and will be swallowed up by the real world (and it's real inhabitants)....feeder fish to be sure...

For Rightasrain and other antagonists:  As a survivor of abuse I can tell you I would not have survived had God not been there to help me through the 15 years of horrors. I have gone through doubt and fear. I have resented those who would leave me too the wolves. God helped me. He supported me, even put his arms around me. Now as an adult I have the strength to protect others from my fate. I will never see my children face that. I did resent God that he left me to the abuses of others. But as I tried to find why he would do that, I found that he made a vow, after the deluge, to never again stop what we humans will do to ourselves or others , it is called freewill. God will help us through what others do to us. He guides us and helps us find the tools we need IF we just listen. If you have not heard or felt the Spirit, I pity you. What a bleak life you must lead. Any person just needs a REAL brain to find the Peace and Mercy that God grants us.

Also; I would like to point out that unknown portions of the Bible are missing. Parts taken by misguided persons trying to make Jesus what they thought he should be. Parts have been found, but not all. What would we know if that was found? Some will blindly follow what is there, in the current Bible. Others, with a brain, will seek more information and guidance. Seek and you shall find the answers. Others have searched, with all their beings and found the truth.

The whole point of this life, as one wise person stated, is that we are in a game, full of tasks that test us and try us, but the catch is that we all need to finish together. We of true belief, don't force others to see what we see. We follow the teachings to let others make their own choices. We respect their choices. God made this world for us to live as we chose. He knows our hearts and hopes we will choose to follow his path. He knows the overall outcome, not the small parts that make up the whole. That is up to our choices. Some intended for something may stray, that is why there is a backup plan for "saints". If Mother Teresea had not done what she did, someone else would have stepped in to fill her shoes. She did her job so now she is a saint.

This Earth is our "schooling" for the next stage in our evolution. Those who follow his path are "the straight A students". And there is no Hell, but that of our own making. It is our guilt that makes the "Hell" we live in. If someone is able to make amends and REALLY repent (no hail mary or money changing hands) then all is well.

The whole "apple" in the garden thing makes me laugh. The closest thing to the fruit in question was an apple. That is why it is called an apple. And Adam and Eve HAD to eat the fruit for the whole plan for this earth to continue. The "Snake was just a way of saying something foul feeling. Satan did not actually take the form of a snake. And he did not know that God needed Adam and Eve to eat the fruit. If they had not eaten the fruit the could not have children or die. The plan for this world would have stalled. And nobody here knows how long they were in the garden. It could have been a million years or more. The ORIGINAL SIN was disobeying God, Not sex or what  other strange things people say.

And there are other Gods, but only ONE for this earth. Plus there are many "people" watching over this earth. Some to keep records of history, some to guide others, some to teach others the truth of our God on the next stage of life. Those people can chose then what they want to do. And yes some have turned away from God.  It is like an office. There is the "Boss" that guides and tell others what needs to be done. Then there are the "Supervisors" to futher those plan as needed. Then there are the "workers".

There is so much more, but some people will never seek out more then what they can see or feel with their hands. My Blessings to you. Those that believe in Christ and God, whatever name you believe them to have. KUDOS. Don't let others sway you or belittle you. Just smile and know you are in the right.

And there is proof of David and Solomon, the walls falling at Jericho, Sodom and Gommorah. People try to hide these to subvert others from the path. They can't stand to have others follow a different road. And maybe suceed where they have failed.

For Rightasrain and other antagonists:  As a survivor of abuse I can tell you I would not have survived had God not been there to help me through the 15 years of horrors. I have gone through doubt and fear. I have resented those who would leave me too the wolves. God helped me. He supported me, even put his arms around me. Now as an adult I have the strength to protect others from my fate. I will never see my children face that. I did resent God that he left me to the abuses of others. But as I tried to find why he would do that, I found that he made a vow, after the deluge, to never again stop what we humans will do to ourselves or others , it is called freewill. God will help us through what others do to us. He guides us and helps us find the tools we need IF we just listen. If you have not heard or felt the Spirit, I pity you. What a bleak life you must lead. Any person just needs a REAL brain to find the Peace and Mercy that God grants us.

Also; I would like to point out that unknown portions of the Bible are missing. Parts taken by misguided persons trying to make Jesus what they thought he should be. Parts have been found, but not all. What would we know if that was found? Some will blindly follow what is there, in the current Bible. Others, with a brain, will seek more information and guidance. Seek and you shall find the answers. Others have searched, with all their beings and found the truth.

The whole point of this life, as one wise person stated, is that we are in a game, full of tasks that test us and try us, but the catch is that we all need to finish together. We of true belief, don't force others to see what we see. We follow the teachings to let others make their own choices. We respect their choices. God made this world for us to live as we chose. He knows our hearts and hopes we will choose to follow his path. He knows the overall outcome, not the small parts that make up the whole. That is up to our choices. Some intended for something may stray, that is why there is a backup plan for "saints". If Mother Teresea had not done what she did, someone else would have stepped in to fill her shoes. She did her job so now she is a saint.

This Earth is our "schooling" for the next stage in our evolution. Those who follow his path are "the straight A students". And there is no Hell, but that of our own making. It is our guilt that makes the "Hell" we live in. If someone is able to make amends and REALLY repent (no hail mary or money changing hands) then all is well.

The whole "apple" in the garden thing makes me laugh. The closest thing to the fruit in question was an apple. That is why it is called an apple. And Adam and Eve HAD to eat the fruit for the whole plan for this earth to continue. The "Snake was just a way of saying something foul feeling. Satan did not actually take the form of a snake. And he did not know that God needed Adam and Eve to eat the fruit. If they had not eaten the fruit the could not have children or die. The plan for this world would have stalled. And nobody here knows how long they were in the garden. It could have been a million years or more. The ORIGINAL SIN was disobeying God, Not sex or what  other strange things people say.

And there are other Gods, but only ONE for this earth. Plus there are many "people" watching over this earth. Some to keep records of history, some to guide others, some to teach others the truth of our God on the next stage of life. Those people can chose then what they want to do. And yes some have turned away from God.  It is like an office. There is the "Boss" that guides and tell others what needs to be done. Then there are the "Supervisors" to futher those plan as needed. Then there are the "workers".

There is so much more, but some people will never seek out more then what they can see or feel with their hands. My Blessings to you. Those that believe in Christ and God, whatever name you believe them to have. KUDOS. Don't let others sway you or belittle you. Just smile and know you are in the right.

And there is proof of David and Solomon, the walls falling at Jericho, Sodom and Gommorah. People try to hide these to subvert others from the path. They can't stand to have others follow a different road. And maybe suceed where they have failed.

I also wanted to thank :davesource, reverendkieler, rightasrain, and odd owl; for being willing to think for yourselves...I found your posts interesting for a variety of reasons, although i can't see why right and owl seem to be at odds per se....Str8Gal also made some interesting points.....my contention has always been to think for yourselves before drawing any conclusions...as long as you show you've done so, i'm inclined to respect whatever you believe regardless of whether i share your views or not....it's people like this "momorama" that i rail against...shallow minded cattle who react with anger, violence, or predictions of doom and servitude if you have differing views and/or point out the flaws in their so-called belief's....they are what i refer to as pathetic, but i really have no sympathy for them, and to somebody like me, as i stated before, they are really just prey and/or fodder, easily swayed and manipulated by people intelligent enough to do so (which pretty much includes just about anybody who has a desire or a need to do so...Macchiavellian principle (possibly misspelled, but you get the idea))....i'm curious what further outrage will be posted in response to this...i've got time to kill today...lol

mandi1...thank you for your insightful comments...finally some words of wisdom....you're like a breath of fresh air

Minus all the God/Christ debate.... This is an extremely interesting story that helps to pinpoint the time lines of a story from the Bible. It also shows how the people of that day lived and worked and how such an innocuous metal such as copper could be used for great wealth.

Leaving aside the debate about Biblical History, this discovery - if it is shown to be "King Solomons Mines" - shows that basic metals like copper were probably the basis for the economic wealth of Israel.  Underwater work in the eastern Mediterranean shows that a major item of trade were large ingots of copper, which could be mixed with tin to produce bronze, a useful alloy that could be fashioned into any number of items.  The nineteenth century adventure book "King Solomon's Mines" has made us prone to think the mines produced gold and precious gems, but having a copper mine may have been more useful for trade with other countries for items Isreal lacked, eg. cedar trees from Lebonnon.  We could be looking at the basis for the beginning of gobalization in trade.  The next step may be to try and determine where the copper went and what did Isreal get in return.

Whether it is copper or gold or whatever  - what difference would it make?  Has George Washington returned from the dead?  How about King Solomon?  If you can comprehend this in your mind, try to imagine how many souls or bodies have died from the very beginning of time - if they were all to return - the earth could not hold them.  Does one ever return?  Christians believe that one day they will see their loved ones again and that the graves are going to open up and the dead in Christ shall rise and those that are alive and remain will meet Jesus in the air with them. I believe this is just a figure of speech.  I studied theology for 10 years and was "born again" in 1983 and through my trials and tribulations, I have come to the conclusion that it is a "possibility" everything they wrote of in the Bible could have come from extraterrestrial experiences.  It is not doubtful and we really don't know (no one really knows ) what happened 1000 , 2000, or even a million years back because none of us were ACTUALLY there.  WE can only go by historic events that were recorded and it is sort of like the person who told a story and by the time it was told over and over by different people - it became a completely different story.  I do believe there is a higher source and I even believe that our  "THOUGHTS" are living.  I think they are actual some type of lifeform we are not aware of or have discovered yet.  I believe there are living things all over the universe but it is not of the origins that we are aware of.  Our technology, for instance, has advanced so quickly just in the last few years compared to millions of years the earth has been here.  It is sad that man cannot get along or agree on anything.  It is our nature to argue, to alwasy be right and say someone else is wrong.  It is our nature to not believe or to believe.  The bottom line is - if we call can LOVE one another and help each other and try and understand each other.  Every human is made individual and even though we don't understand it all, we are all made alike in most ways.  We see others that look like someone we know - but the one thing that is very interesting is, only I have freckles where I have them and someone else has freckles where they have them, there is only (one) of each of us with the exception of identical births, etc.  Think of how beautiful and wonderful the world could be IF everyone could get along and HELP each other.  What a waste of years and time - there is enough of everything on the earth to go around for every living being if only it was equalled out.  I dont' have all the answers, however, I do believe that as time keeps on going, so will the world still turn and man will still have his evil nature.  The world is what one makes it - there are many worlds in the world and it is up to EACH of us to decide which "world" we will CHOOSE to live in and how to make it either good or bad.  We all have choices and as far as Jesus goes, YES, I do believe He was real and existed but I am not sure at this time if he was exterrestrial decent and the writer's of the bible described him the only way they knew how to at that time.  The Bible does say - there is nothing new under the sun (which tells me that all of this may have happend before ) such as history repeating itself, etc.  It also says, God is Love and that in the beginning was the Word - the Word was God and the Word was with God - which I think that word is Jesus but then again, I still feel it has an exterrestrial origin somehow.  Remember, George Washington has never come back to the earth and neither has any other human as we know it that has died.  Think of how many souls or humans we are talking about here.  The number would be astronomical!  

AMEN -  Momarama  AMEN!!!   I'd rather be laughed all the way into Heaven than patted on the back into Hell.  By the way - why do non-believers argue about something they don't believe in?

The historical accuracy of the bible has stood the test of time and anyone with a critical mind understands that men, guided by the spirit of God wrote the bible and men, guided by the same spirit interpret it. We can only get so far with our feable minds in our efforts to discount, or substantiate what was written so long ago. The bottom line isn't who is right or wrong or whether we are uneducated or ignorant because it all comes down to whether or not you believe that Jesus Christ died for the sins of this world? Is he the perfect sacrifice for an imperfect mortal? Remember, it was the scholars and Saducees that sent him to the cross. Why is it do you suppose? Because they had eyes and they did not see, and they had ears but they did not hear. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength 1 corinthians 1:25. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. 1 corinthians 3:19. Who are we but mere mortals to question almighty God. I suppose it is normal to wonder why good things happen to bad people and bad things to good, because nothing is fair in an unjust world.  This life is a journey from the minute you enter it, until your last dying breath and there will come a day when every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, it's gonna happen, whether you like it or not.

Posted By: ODD OWL (October 28, 2008 at 6:38 PM)   Education is the key...

And yours is surely coming.....

I do just have 1 question for the religious. If its all part of "God's" plan, then why would the suffering of the young, the infants, terribly abused, murdered, disfigured, horrible illnesses possibly be part of a so called greater plan. To make them hurt, ache, be in continuous pain, never know what its like to be a healthy child. Laughing, playing, just being.They'll never know.That makes absolutley no sense to anyone with a shred of brain power, including myself.

If everything was as you said,  there would not be a need for God.  You would never ask who He is. Sounds like these people you have mentioned have helped get your attention,  you just need to dig a little deeper.......for yourself...not for someone else.

"The same old lies forever told anew, will never serve to make the Zionist falsehoods true"... Everytime a Zionist or archaeologists attempt to link real history with Zionist, Christian or Islamic Biblical history, trouble arises...  There is no evidences to suggest that David, Solomom or any other person mentioned in the Torah, Bible or Koran ever actually existed...  Religion is a mythology... All the Gods are fictional characters...  There is no evidences tp back up the Zionists claims that a Nation or State of Israel actually existed in ancient times...  The Egyptians, Ethiopians, Babylonians, Assyrians, Syrians, Jordanians Canaanite or Greeks never mentioned anything about the existence of a Nation of Israel in ancient times... Ancient Israel is a morden Zionist creation... Canaan belongs to the Canaanites... The Edomites were simply Canaanite people... Canaan was a highly advanced Country, on par with Egypt... The so-called "Jews" were foreign invaders who descended from the Zionist Hyksos who invaded Canaan in 1734 BCE... They were never anything more than a small vocal, troublesome minority...  The Jew God JHVH or Jehovah or Yahweh is simply a Canaanite God, The so-called Hebrew language is simply the Canaanite language... The Canaanite Language belongs to the Semitic dialect of the Ethiopic Afro-Asiatic language family as well as Arabic and all the other languages that were ever spoken in Afro-Asia or South-west Asia or the Middle East...  "Deluded visionaries, lift up thine eyes, behold the source from which your fables rise... These are realities of Heavenly birth and ye pursue their shadows here on the Earth"...    People who claim that they "Believe in Gods" and have "Faith" are simply trying to cover up the facts that they're naive, ignorant and gullible...   Education is the key...

Evolution=Survival of the Fittest ...When science has unequivocally proven/disproven a factoid it becomes scientific law...Hence the Law of Gravity for example.  It does not remain scientific theory.  The theory of evolution is still just that, "the theory of evolution".  All primates have 48 chromosomes and humans have 46.  Not a single person has provided scientific proof of "the missing link".  Unless you count all the home movies full of grainy footage of an ape like creature walking around in the woods as scientific proof. The theory of evolution suggests that certain attributes are slowly phased out over time based on a species need for survival.  If evolution saw fit to erase two chromosomes in primates to make us human then why are there primates still living if they are not FIT TO SURVIVE or are the remaining primates still evolving into humans?  If that is what you believe then explain why there are not a bunch of missing links running around in the wild.  If humans did evolve from primates then we should still share some instinctual traits right? Human mothers  kill their babies everyday via abortion/abandonment and great ape mothers  will care for a still-born for a couple of days before they give up hope. So I guess human females lost some of their motherly instinct which again, made humans more FIT TO SURVIVE. All primates have much greater physical strenghth than humans...That totally contradicts logic to me if you are an evolutionist.  .  Evolution made me more Fit To Survive because it took away 5-7 times my physical strength.  C'mon get real, before you tell me that our brain power makes us more fit to survive.  Maybe in certain instances but I can think of alot more instances where greater physical strength would make a human more Fit To Survive.

Dear Rev~

As far as my name calling goes--well deserved to the appointed, however God does forgive!!!!

ll

ll

Dear ANti:

What I said,was that God was a sadist because , if he is a truly onmniscient being , then he knows all .

I am a parent ,  but I do not know what the future holds for my children.. Unlike your GOD who does know everything..Again you can not have it both ways.. Please go back and read and try not to gloss it over with your faith. Read it to understand my argument ,  you do not have to believe it ,, just understand it ..

So I studied world religions.  One of the first things we learn is that "religion", when you break it down simply means holding a belief.  EVERYONE has something he or she believes.  For example, "the sun will come out tomorrow"...is a statement of belief.  We don't know 100% that it will, we're not in "tomorrow" yet.  Robilar5500 obviously has some strong beliefs, but I'm betting he or she would hate to be called some "religious" freak, and labeled as "what's wrong with the world".  It's easy to say every war was about "religion", but frankly you could also say that every war was also about POWER, or GREED.  Nobody is going to agree with someone else 100% all the time.  Evolutionists and Scientists don't even agree on all the same things all the time, but you don't see people saying that we should throw out physics because of it.

 Again , if you believe in a God as stated in the Bible, then there is no free will.   If a God created all,, and knows all ,, then God created you to live 1 year or 100 years. God created you to be a saint or a murderer, plumber or a politician, vegetarian or a meat-eater. If you believe in God as a GOD, then all is known from beginning to end. It is a direct contradiction in a fundamental belief in Christianity that you have free will and that if you chose to believe in Jesus and accept him as your savior , that you will be granted everlasting life in heaven.  The problem is that he already knows what your decision  is going to be. Therefore, non-believers are alreadys destined to hell.

Argument...

If I was a paganist and practiced cannabilism somewhere in the South Pacific 800 years ago. That is all I know from birth, becasue that is what my parents shown meas to be the lifestyle I need to follow. I must be destined for hell, even though I never was given the opportunity to follow Christ.

Now the argument I here against this , is that only God can see into the heart of men , and thence you will be judged.  but if I worship false idols, and kill, I would say that those were pretty grevious infractions against the 10 commandments.

Man created God.  There is most certainly something beyond what we know, but a book written by man to tell me what , how, and why I must live my life , is exactly that ----- a bookwrittenm by man.

kat48315, I could tell you that I've seen lots of horrible things done by Christians, even pastore of my own church that I belonged to, but that isn't really the reason, although true.  The truth as to why I became an atheist is that I searched very hard as to why I believe in God for so many years (I even posted "Jesus Saves" in my high school yearbook!!!).  I then realized that the reason was because I was RAISED to believe what I do.  And if I were raised to be Muslim, or any other religion, then THAT is what I would now believe, so it is really just a matter of coincidence in how one is raised as to what one believes.  I also researched the Bible and other theological works, both pro and con and made my own decision.  When I finally came to the realization that I did not believe in a deity, it was like a weight lifted off my back, that I could finally admit what I had doubted for so long was an incredible relief (and it freed up my Sundays!!! LOL!).

lol...i love how the believers like to say that i must have an "empty" life without god. This just adds to the comedy...i've seen a few of you actually espousing the 10000years theory. For those of you who just try to live a good life and use faith as your medium, that's respectable, and the following statements aren't directed at you...the rest of you posers out there really need to take a hard look at yourselves. Clearly, your so-called belief has more to do with your lack of self respect and a need to justify or explain everything....There are other options out there for you though...and really, if we put all of you so-called believers together in a room (or say, a church/cynagogue/mosque etc...), and made you listen to each other's rhetoric, very few would agree even on the tenets of your belief's, much less anything else (unless you had a very charismatic individual that you could all follow-David Khoresh, Jim Johnson anybody?)....a few have suggested that i can't prove there isn't a god, which is one of the most ridiculous things you could say...there is not a god, and if therre was, do you really think your concerns, belief's, ideology, etc would have any real bearing on its existence? i'm sure operating a universe or two would be more important than worrying whether this human or that human desires or deserves "salvation"...stop trying to live forever...are you a vampire or something (actually, many of you are leaches on society and the world in general, so maybe you are)? Do you think its funny that somehow, god might actually deign to weigh in on the outcome of a football game, or care about what little Susie might wear to school, or what music you listen to, or what you believe whatsoever...pretty egotistical if you do.

Aside from being an effective means of governing the masses (like the play on words here), and exerting influence over what you should think, how you should feel, etc,,,religion plays no role whatsoever in the actual, real world....have you ever considered other options? maybe you're really the design of another intelligent culture, a test tube baby, randomly spliced DNA...the real truth is that people seek answers, and when they can't find them, or don't understand them, they create gods to define these mysteries.....

There are literally hundreds of gods, if not thousands, who people have worshipped over the years...snake gods, fire gods, gods of war, pestilence, famine, wealth, commerce, fishing,...if you can think of it, there's a god to worship for the topic at hand.Every single war in recorded history has had religious connotations (some overtly, some subtle...but always there)...it's a very handy tool in the "it's us against them" world that a majority of so-called believers live in...Moslems must be evil if they don't agree with Christians, Jews "killed" Christ, Orientals are heathens....lots of hatred propogated by the virtuous gods you worship, or the people who would make it so...

The Christian god (and Moslem, Jewish, etc...same god with different names and core values) was just a household god once...things just got out of hand.

Adam and Eve...very brave souls...to actually think for themselves (the actual original sin, represented by eating the so-called forbidden fruit), and to question the status quo...very brave indeed...btw, how many of you eat that very same fruit today? on literal terms, this would be an apple, in figurative terms (the actual truth in this case), this would be free thought and the willingness to question authority? Just about every one of you has partook of one of the two at the very least....

So, lets move on to the next question...this one pertains to Noah's Ark: how large would a boat actually have to be to carry 2 of every single creature to live on this earth? You couldn't manage that feat with an aircraft carrier, and it's seaworthiness would be suspect also...Additionally, plenty of those animals are carniverous...what did they eat for those "40 days and 40 nights"? Can any of you really support the theory (or story) of Noah? I know of only one way to manage that type of endeavor...DNA....but how did Noah manage it? Or did he? Maybe he was an alien or something (more plausible than any explanations put forth by the Judeo-Christian world....

Okay, next....why must you be a god-fearing soul? Some of say that Jehova is a vengeful god, others claim it loves all life...some say anything not human is undeserving...people actually debate whether animals have souls or not....can you be any more arrogant?!?

Do you even know what you believe? To me, you seem like an angry and confused herdof sheep, and really, for somebody like me, you know, somebody who actually lives in the real world, you people are easy to control and easy to manipulate...you've allowed yourselves to become a herd of sheep (as i mentioned above) who are easy prey for the wolves that live amongst you. Which is ultimately fine, as i'm getting very hungry right now........actually, i think a better term for you would be "prey" or "dinner"

One last note: 666 refers to Emperor Nero, who as you well know, kept his Lions bellies full with Christian meat (this is a sad period of history, but indicative of where your belief's will inevitably lead you)...he also burnt down Rome to build his massive palace...One other thing he did was implement a free food and water program to any citizen who would wear his mark on his/her wrist or forehead...He was known as "the Beast", and those who desired aid wore....you got it, the Mark of the Beast....evil yes, Satan no.....

Alright, i've gotta go now you wild pack of heathens (i mean believers)...just remember, truth can be a bitter pill to take, but as you know, "the truth shall set you free"....

davesource:

What you call sadism, I call love.  How can one truly love something that it controls?  Just because God knew the choices you would make, doesn't mean He didn't want to give you every opportunity to make the right one.  Just because He knew that Adam and Eve would sin, doesn't mean He didn't love them enough to create them and then come up with a bailout plan for the ages!  God didn't create disease, murder, racism, sin is the absence of God.  I look at it the way I see my children.  I had them full knowing well that they would make mistakes, suffer pain and heart break and there is the very real possibility that they may die before I do.  I don't love them any less when they make mistakes.  Knowing all of this didn't make me not have children.  I know that having kids will be a fight and I know that they will not do everything like I want them to, but that doesn't mean I won't love them and be there for them always.  Even now I am contantly giving them the opportunity to do the right thing, when I know that they won't.  I wouldn't be a very good parent if I walked around behind them all day making sure they did everything perfect, controlling their every move.  So in your thinking all parents are sadists.  But since I believe I was made in the image and likeness of the God who created me, I guess it only makes sense.

theactualvoiceofreason, you are absolutely right.  Enough ranting and raving.  Yes, it is interesting that the mine discovered was a copper mine.  But I disagree regarding its value.  Copper is valuable today - look at how many crimes are commited stealing copper pipe to sell for salvage.  Probably copper was valued back then as well, perhpas as currency or "fashionable" items such as jewelry or dinnerware.  Just a guess.

I want to say that I agree with about 90% of what has been posted here, which is also the same percentage of truth that most churches teach.  But who can blame them (besides God) we are human, we make mistakes, we are wrong most of the time.  Throughout history most all of mankind has only been able to learn by making mistakes.  Look at many of the philosophers of old who were often killed for beliefs that the society believed to be false and we as a society now accept as fact.  The number one thing wrong with the church, is that there are people in it.  We all (atheist, Christian, pagan) try to justify ourselves, but when it comes down to it, every one of us have to have faith in order to believe what we do.  How can anyone of us prove our own existence, or the creation of life, this world or anything in it, if we were not there to witness it.  

That is why the definition of 'faith' in the Bible is so true to us all.  "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."  That definition can apply to all of us (atheist and Christian alike), and yet the question arises, where does that faith come from?  The Bible says that "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."  So my question is, where does faith come from when it comes to evolution and atheism?  The only place it can come from is mankind.  So if that is the case and since we have well established through the many posts here that man makes mistakes and is often wrong, how can anyone rely on that type of faith?  Compare that to putting your faith in a God whom we believe created this great universe we live in with all of its beauty and wonder all around us, much of which we still do not understand or comprehend.  I know that I do not have all of the answers and may never, but I also know that I would much rather put my faith in God, rather than in man or myself.

Noone knows anything until you die.

I hope your and our beliefs help rather than hinder. And I dont remember who said it just recently, but yes, we ALL should be helping the poor and needy rather than wasting time on this to push our points of view.

Since noone wants to talk about this article, I'm going to help the needy right now. Talk is cheap.  See ya!

reverendkieler

Growing up the way you did, I would be interested in hearing on why you decided to turn from God (oh you are an atheist and you believe in no diety) so I would be interested in how you cem to not believe.

Again, this is getting dull...can we talk about the article? Anyone?

I wonder what made them decide to look where they did? Do you think they'll release any pictures soon?

I just have a couple things to say over some things I read.  

1)  To the person who's 7 yr old sister died.  I feel your pain.  My sister died last year and it really hurts.  It's hard to believe God would allow something so painful to happen to people he supposedly loves.   I can understand if you're mad about your loss.  I am mad about mine.  Unfortunately death doesn't prove there isn't a God.  The Bible speaks often of death.  Its a result of us living in a broken world.  On the upside there is a plan laid out by God in the Bible to reunite us with Him in an unbroken realm.  

2)  There are people who specialize in things like Biblical languages, and archeology in order that they can provide people with the most acurate information about God.  Some poeple mentioned the Bible being translated multiple times out of the original language meant that there wasn't a God, or it isn't reliable.  To those people I would like to ask, are you a history specialist, or a linguist?  Jesus might have spoken in Aramaic, but at the time Greek was the "national" language. Believe it or not poeple weren't dumb back in the day.  Most of the educated ones were bilingual, or trilingual.  The old testament is written in Hebrew, which we know Jesus knew because he was a Jew and student of the Torah.  We know Jesus spoke to Roman soilders, who probably spoke Greek, so...what I am saying is...A)  What source told you Jesus "only' spoke Aramaic, and B)  If he did, the people who wrote the New Testament also did, as well as the others who knew Jesus.  If the words of Jesus were twisted to the point that the original message was lost, there would be witnesses who would have been able to call the authors on their errors.  Also if you know about how the old testament documents were handed down you would know that they were VERY careful in making sure they were exact.  There were people who copied scriptures for a living, scribes, and they wrote things down on the equivilant of graph paper, so that every space was a specific letter or space.  They sort of had a number system so that for example, space 23-25 should have specific words in them, and so should space 68-75.  If these spaces did not match up, they knew there was an error.  (We do similar things with crossword puzzles.)  We actually have the dead sea scrolls, which are in the essance of meaning the same as the scriptures they match today.   There are thousands of copies of both old and New Testament documents that are originals if someone really cared to find the truth they could read these in their original languages.  Translations have only been done to benefit those who are to lazy to study Greek and Hebrew.  But I can assure you that Greek and Hebrew is taught to many Pastors still today.  

3)  There is so much historical evidence about Jesus that if you are a scholar you'd have to sooner throw out Plato and Ceasar, before you could throw out Jesus.  The question is was Jesus who he said he was?  Was Jesus God?  His diciples were willing to die, and live miserable lives in order to tell people that he performed miracles, and rose from the dead.  Would you be willing to be tortured for something you knew to be a lie?  Just something to think about.

4)  In regards to the mines...let's face it there isn't any real hard evidence who they belonged to, but what was interesting is that learned archeologists use the history of scripture to even bother to look for them.  

5)  Nobody should be clumped into a group and be held accountable for someone else's actions.  People who claim to be a lot of things to evil things, religious, democratic, atheist.  People are imperfect.  It's the generalizations, demonizing, and unwillingness to forgive people we don't know that make this world crazy, not a faith that teaches to love others.  

kat48315, you got me there!  Touche!  I knew that was coming too, as soon as I wrote it.  You are absolutely right, I can't argue with your logic there.

I just figured out why you feel a need to prostelatize (sp?).  It is human nature to want to make an impression on another who is fallible or gullible, hurting or corrupt.  In so doing, your life and purpose takes on meaning.  Preaching or telling another what "God" is all about gives you power, control, and seeming intelligence and knowledge.  I think it must be from a deficiency in your own lives perhaps?  Or just because it simply makes you feel good to think you are "helping" another with your infinite knowledge and insight?

Again, this is getting dull...can we talk about the article? Anyone?

Isn't it interesting that they found this mine? And it was mining copper...who would've thought THAT was considered a rare and precious metal, given all the pennies we have now?

Dear EVLEDA,

While it's true the world has it's problems we can learn to be content and have lasting peace by accepting God at his word and accepting Jesus as our Saviour. When you accept Christ, God's spirit comes to live in you as the source of peace. Jesus said in John 16:33 "In the world ye shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer I have overcome the world". That statement alone gives me the peace to deal with this world and it's problems.

While we may all face illness and even death, if we accept Christ as saviour we can live eternally in heaven where no disease, pain, suffering or death will even exist.

You are exactly correct, we cannot fault anyone else we simply need to examine our own hearts.

reverendkieler

and why do you feel the need to proclaim your non-faith on such an anonymous media?

gahennasuxs,

As a former Christian, I knew the answer to my question before I asked it.  I understand that pastors preach to "go and tell all nations".  Weather here in Easton, PA is horrible today.  Very windy, cold and rainy since yesterday afternoon.

PBS did a documentary about the missing chapters, and the magazine...well..look 'em up

Posted By: jack2005 (October 28, 2008 at 1:55 PM)

well, Anti_Politix_Pro_Morals I think most get upset with bible thumpers because of the influence on politics.  When you have an idiot running the country and believes in this stuff….. it’s a problem.  By the way, which religion is right….. I am guessing yours.

Jack2005:

If he believed as you do, regardless of his unreasonableness and single-mindedness, he would suddenly not be an idiot.  Additionally, I know lots of Christians that A) didn't vote for him and think he's the worst thing to happen to our country and B) NEVER vote republican.  So, your assumption that even in politics all Christians (generic term used) agree is just that, an assumption.  I would also point out that ALOT of people profess Christianity and live lives that do not reflect that profession.  I could say that I'm alot of things that I am not, and saying it doesn't make it automatically true.  I would also point out that in my system of beliefs, I truly believe that only God knows the heart of a man, so I wouldn't run around pointing out who and who does not make the cut.  

Similarly, the argument that I believe that my religion is right is superfluous.  Of course I believe it's right!  Why would I dedicate my life to something I only marginally believe in.  I would assume that you equally believe that you are correct in your beliefs as well.  It's kind of an important part of a belief system.  Further, free-will is an integral part of my belief system.  Just because I believe you are wrong doesn't mean I don't think you have the right to be wrong.  Pursuant to the book I look to (the Bible, in various translations), God is pretty clear that we are all given free-will.  However, He loves us despite our choices.  So, however ridiculous that makes me sound.  That IS what I believe and I actually do believe it is true.  I know... crazy that I believe that what I believe is true.    

with regards to my being right, the only difference between you and I are

This is getting dull...can we talk about the article? Anyone?

Isn't it interesting that they found this mine? And it was mining copper...who would've thought THAT was considered a rare and precious metal, given all the pennies we have now?

Posted By: JIMTHRP71 (October 28, 2008 at 3:18 PM)

YET AGAIN !,,,,,THE BIBLE IS PROVED TO BE 100% ACCURATE......WHEN WILL THIS UNBELIEVING WORLD WAKE UP !

JIM T.

Dear Jim,

When I go to church with my parents at christmas (out of respect for them only) the church tells me that the earth was formed by god 5,000 some years ago and is only that old.  This information is from the bible, correct?  So, how exactly can the bible be 100% accurate?  I only ask because this less than 6,000 year old figure is...  just a little bit off.  I could go on all day with other discrepancies, but being that no religion can prove their god(s) exists, and no athiest can prove all of the religions are (completely) incorrect, I suppose there's no point.  Unfortunately for your point of view, it will definitely take more than an obviously man-made book that has been rewritten [or reinterpreted (listened in on one of these sessions once - VERY amusing)] time and time again to get me to "wake up."

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actual voice of reason tell me where to find this info I would love to research more

As an outsider looking in on this whole conversation, I must say that I find it interesting to see how quick the atheists are to proclaim that they have a higher understanding and knowledge of the bible than that of avid followers and believers in Christ. Some might, not for me to say, but not all of you. If you grew up in a religious family and studied for years and based your belief on years of self reflection and whatnot, at some point you probably did know a lot, but surely you don't still study the bible and keep sharp on everything that you don't believe in. Anyways, nobody is impressing anyone with quotes when they are so easily obtained through various search engines designed to spew out every passage with certain words or phrases. They're handy, but it makes any arguement of your knowledge null and void over a comment discussion. Just had to point out the obvious.

If the christians get so up in arms about some athiestic comment, who cares. As pointed out earlier, noone is going to convert anyone here. This is just a place for faceless bashing  with the ability to say anything you want with no reprocutions (sp?). Quit gettin so up in arms. We all have our faith or lack thereof and I guess in the end, we'll all find out. It sure seems like there is a lot more to lose by not believing in God, should he really be there, becuase the flip side is we all just die and nobody is any better off in the end. Just some thoughts.

TO MOM261:

Have you ever considered that perhaps, just maybe, God loved your sister more than you or anyone else could ever love her, and knowing she would be much more happy in His Presence than to live in such a depraved and fallen world, that He took her so that she might just be with Him for eternity?  You commit a grave mistake by using this example to justify your unbelief.

As to the article , discussion on timelines will always be argued as to the veracity of the bible and its historic accuracy. No matter what side of the fence you are on, christian, jewish, or whatever, truth is what one believes. 2 people can see the same event , and yet , 2 stories( points of view, will be conveyed.

It always cracks me up  when christians beleive that God's will or God's plan be done. If you are a true believer in 'God', then you believethat he isan omnipotent being. that he created the heavens and the earth and all things between.  A truly ominscient being would know all from start to end. If that is the case , then God is truly sadistic. Think of this people,... If god knows all and created all with purpose , then there is no such thing as free will .. How many times have you heard this saying ? " God's will be done". That means he created heaven and hell , and satan, disease, murder, racism, EVERYTHING.....

Christians like to have it both ways.. There is no other way to salvation without Jesus Christ.

If there is a form of prejudice greater than that, then someone speak up..someone below  stated that it is a choice for him to make whether or not you believe or not , but if you do not believe then you go to hell.  Christianity ( from a former Catholic )  is a scare tactic brought on by man. Do I deny that Jesus existed ?  No ,, but do I believe that he is my only way to an after life that is a pleasant one? no.

Reverendkieler: Because it's what we believe that God has called us to do.  Which is to Proclaim His name, in everycorner of the world.  Including a blog on Newsweek.  By the way, how's the weather in your part of the world.

This article was very interesting.

There is ONE DOG, and his name is FLUFFY!!!

to vorteck1...I am very sorry for your loss and I mourn with you.  Your error in logic however is that you assume God would not allow pain, suffering or death.  That view is based on a perspective that is very limited.  If you widen your perspective on life to include the possibility that this life is a temporary stop in an eternal existence then you will see more clearly.  The purpose of this life is to gain a body and experience...in an atmosphere of uncertainty.  There is no joy without sorrow.  There is no health without sickness.  You will be able to see your sister again through the love of God.  Doesn't the thought of that reunion give you a sense of hope and feel good in your heart?  Deny God and you deny that hope.  It is true, whether you belive or not.

Why do all you Christians feel a need to post your beliefs and proclaim your faith on such an anonymous media?

There is ONE GOD his name is GOD, ALLAH, YAWEH, JEHOVAH, GREAT SPIRIT, CREATOR! Put whatever label on The Almighty  you must, but don't deny His existence. I've never seen a sub-atomic particle and neither has anyone else, but I believe they exist. The same goes for God.

Whats the point of arguing over this?  I am a christian but I also believe that everyone has their own right to decide what they do and don't believe in. Preach to thoes who want to be preached and don't waste your time preaching to thoes who will argue!  The world is the way it is because everyone gets offended when their "beliefs" are argued. So why argue.  Why not let everyone believe what they want.  My belief in God doesn't harm any Athiest as well as an Atheists beliefs doesn't harm me.   If in the end my beliefs are right and there is a heaven then awesome. If not, oh well but whats it hurt you for ME beliving in God?  Whats it hurt me for YOU not believing in God?

90% of you must be Obama supporters, you follow blindly. By the way let’s follow stone aged people that killed more people in the name of god than any other reason and still do.    

Actually, Freejeff, the Bible was altered...three chapters were removed at the time of Constantine: one because it weas written by a womn, and two in which one had Christ dictating that you didn't have to go to church but could meditate to be with God. It killed business for the established church that Constantine was setting up.

The book has been through a series of translations based on guestimates from early documentation. The multiple translations alone distort meaning as each language has a different vernacular. Look up in the library an article done in the late 80s by Spy magazine translating a simple sentence using the same languages as example.

In short Freejeff, do your homework, but please stop being condescending.

bcmgcmlamp: I'm not condemning anyone to hell.  It's not my place to condemn..  I can tell you what my believe is.  That there is a Heaven and Hell.  I'm not angry at all.  I'm actually enjoying the cool air of a nice fall day, thanking God for all the things he has provided and blessed me with.  Christ will judge, not me.  I'm not even going to be on the jury.  (that's a joke).  I will be judged for the sin's of my life by God, by using the same measuring stick he will judge everyone that has ever lived which includes you.  If trying to manipulate my words to make a point makes you feel better where your had in your life, then so be it.  I hope you have a wonderful day.

An exerpt from the book The God Delusion, by Richard Dawkins includes a quote by Sam Harris, author of The End of Faith :

We have names for people who have many beliefs for which there is no rational justification. When their beliefs are extremely common we call them 'religious'; otherwise, they are likely to be called 'mad', 'psychotic' or 'delusional'....Clearly there is sanity in numbers. And yet, it is merely an accident of history that it is considered normal in our society to believe that the Creator of the universe can hear your thoughts, while it is demonstrative of mental illness to believe that he is communicating with you by having the rain tap in Morse code on your bedroom window. And so, while religious people are not generally mad, their core beliefs absolutely are

I understand your questioning, and hopefully it is only a matter of time that you come to undersand that this is not the world where all will be well with everyone. I would highly recommend you read the book "Many Lives, Many Masters" written by Dr. Brian Weiss, a prominent psychiatrist who also was not a spiritually driven person. It may help you, like it did me to unlock the door to a look outside ourselves and this world where we seem to have such tunnel vision. I am especially glad I read this book before my Mother passed away last month after fighting the terrible form of cancer known as Multiple Myeloma. I am continuing the journey of reading more books like this to help me understand that we are all at a different point in our lives of figuring out what life is all about.

with all the time you all spent trying in vain to change each other's minds you could ve volunteered at a soup kitchen and made a real difference in this world.  Agree to disaagree and practice what you preach.  I find all of you hypocritical and zealots in your own fashion. Move out of your parents basements and get some sunshine and try to make a difference for someone else not because someone else told you to do it but because you just should.  The semantics of belief are irrelevant when they're all preaching the same thing...

I believe in God. I believe that God made himself a man to see what it is like and to share wisdom. I believe God saw us as a bunch of pious barbarians and still forgave us knowing we were stupid then, and we are not much further despite all our technology. I believe God gave us science to understand our selves, our world, and the uiverse so that God could understand himself/herself through our senses and our experience.

I believe God does not see things in the black and white way of judgement we do. I believe God is love, and the further we are away from love the further we are away from God.

I don't believe in religion. I don't believe God would like the amount of money poured into real estate (i.e. churches) or the wasted Sundays that could be spent actually helping the needy. I think there are those who found a weak spot to exploit for personal gain, and we do them a favor every time we write a cheque.

I believe that we all can have whatever we desire. I believe many are not ready to see God in God's terms, but he/she's there anyway for us.

I believe because it's ignorant to think this is all we have, and I also believe we have done this over and over. We have been here for millions of years in many incarnates. Everything is energy.

Most of all, what I believe is just that...a belief. And until we die, we really don't know. But why make it harder to live amongst ourselves? Why are we just talking the talk?

To internalconflict3

I think one reason why there is pain and everything you list in this world is because there all of have sinned and are out of relationship and peace with God, which can and will only be found in Jesus Christ and through Him.  No one is righteous, not one person, including Christians, we work towards righteousness, but it is Christ's Spirit in us that the righteousness is attributed to.  We have all fallen away, and when a world exists outside of the peace and will of God, then bad things happen, because we have turned and walked away from God's love, protection, and perfection.  And this starting from the first created human beings.  Starting with Adam and Eve (society has really worn a hole in this couple) we have a sinful nature, it is our nature not to act good and peaceful at all times.  It is in our nature to maybe lie or maybe steal, or if you are not that type of person, then complain (yes, complaining is a sin).  But this just shows how we are all lost and sinful and that we need a way out of our spiritually dead state - Jesus The Redeemer and Counselor, Lord, Savior, and Judge.  So bad things happen as a result of our choice to sin.  It may seem harsh and may seem undeserved, but that is our own human problem with pride and self-centeredness.  We need to realize that there is a Holy God and that we were all created for one purpose - to praise God.  I don't mean to water any pain that you may be going through down or that of anyone you know.  It is just that we all experience these pains Christian or not, and God really does give you peace and comfort, speaking from experience on both sides, not saved and now saved!

bcmgcmlamp :  

gahennasuxs is not the one judging.  don't shoot the messenger.

Posted By: vorteck1 (October 28, 2008 at 3:19 PM)

You people are crazy there is no god If there were my 7 year old sister would not have died from Cancer. Enough said!

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I have a reply to your post vorteck1!  I thought of this email when I read your comment.  Let me tell you that no one can force you to choose God, because God gave us free will.  That is why Satan is in the Lake of Fire (Hell).  He decided he wanted to be above God (which can not happen).  I have a personal walk with my Lord and Savior and would not trade it for anything in this world!  I pray that God reveals Himself to you in a great way.  Be blessed!  (read email below)

A man went to a barber shop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed. As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation. They talked about so many things and various subjects. When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said: “I don't believe that God exists.”

“Why do you say that?” asked the customer.

“Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't exist. Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children? If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain. I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things.”

The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument. The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop.

Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard. He looked dirty and unkempt. The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber: “You know what? Barbers do not exist.”

“How can you say that?” asked the surprised barber. “I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!”

“No!” the customer exclaimed. “Barbers don't exist because if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside.”

“Ah, but barbers DO exist! What happens, is people do not come to me.”

“Exactly!”- affirmed the customer.“That's the point! God, too, DOES exist! What happens, is, people don't go to Him and do not look for Him. That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world.”

Wow. All these differing opinions and thoughts....what is the purpose of our existence anyway?  You can't all be right in your opinions can you?  What is the right answer?  What if someone who had lived here and died came back and told us the purpose?  Would you care, or are you so set in your beliefs that you are afraid to seek answers?

the Bible is true even though it has errors, missing books and is interpreted differently by different groups.  Many who deny it have never read it.  The Book of Mormon testifies of the Bible and itself is a pure translation of an ancient record and has the answers many of you seem to need.  Read it also before you deny this piece of amazing evidence of God and his Son Jesus Christ.  Solomon was a real king.  Seek the wisdom he possessed.  

better to reign in hell than serve in heaven

I just read a comment that said that the Bible says that you have to respect the law of the land and that many do not in the name of God. Abortion rights are  a law. God,s law superceded man,s law. Throughout the Bible you will find many laws by man that were unjust and inmoral. Howabout the Israelites during the time of baby Moses. If you were an egyptian midwife and the Pharaoh(President), commanded you to kill male infants, would you? Christians are pacifist ,true christian that is . We should follow the law of the land as long as its in agreement with God,s law .Many Germans hid Jewish people during WWII because they did not agree with the law of the land. Please do not misconstrue how we should submit to authority to carry out inmoral agendas.

Internalconflict3:  Your answer is we don't know what God's plan is.  Pain, suffering etc is no different than laughter, happiness etc.  God made us to have free choice.  To believe in Him or not.  Just like he doesn't cause or control hurricanes, sunami's or my personal favorite because of where I live tornadoes.  God doesn't want robots or marrianets.  He wants us to seek Him and choose Him not because we are being made to, but because we want to seek Him and follow Him.  

My feelings about the bible is that it should be looked at as the first history book, and not something to worship unless your a history buff lol, as for god, I believe he seeded this planet and moved on to let it live and die on its own, he gave us a brain to work things out, so when things dont go right here on earth, we cant blame anyone, thats just the way it is, until we can get smart enough to fix the problems of the world on are own

gahennasuxs,

Thanks for the discussion, I actually respect your opinions and beliefs, but know that I post my writings and non-belief not from a source of not "knowing".  That is a fallacy of most Christians about non-believers.  I actually grew up in a Christian home, my entire family is Christian, and I graduated from a Christian high school.  I went through all the Christian events and litagy, I can quote you vast bible passages and know more about the bible than any of my Christian friends.  But thank you for the lively discussion.

The world has become a terrible place to live.  Is there any solution to cleaning it up?

Will anyone ever be safe from harm, illnes, death?  Is there any answer to it all?

We can all point fingers and blame each other, but will that cure anything?  

The mess we live in can not be blamed entirely on one religious group, one gender, one

culture, or even one race.  We live in this world together, and we will die in this world

together.   We need to look at our own lives, and fix the problems with our own lives.

Clean our own backyard up before we start on someone elses.

By the way, what was the article about again?

I really love how many times I have read the arguement from people stating that the Bible has been "translated and changed" so many times throughout history. People should really do some research before making blanket statements. The reality couldn't be further from that statement. We have two manuscripts that the Scriptures are translated from, The Alexandrian Text and the Textus Receptus, the later being the "Received Text" all throughout Christendom throughout the ages. When the Dead Sea scrolls, dating back to up to 200 years BC were discovered, it was verified that the Textus Receptus has not been altered (other than some small difference's in name spellings) in over 2,000 years.

PS using Judgement Day is waving a threat. Using Heaven and Hell is waiving a threat. Turning the other cheek, declaring you don't agree but respect the other's belief, being kind...that is hard to do, and also the most honorable.

Please...stop using hate to make a point or change a mind. Go out and do good works without any advertsisng. If anyone should ask, tell them you just want to be Christ-like. Let them seek the details. Live by example.

gahennasuxs,

Let me take a quote from you.. "If you are not a believer and follower of Jesus Christ, don't get so angry at those that are that you must try and tear others down".

Now, you just contradicted yourself in that statement... you seem to be the angry one talking about burning in hell and damnation!  You are sitting there judging us non-believers, and yet you say we tear others down... my friend, you just condemned me and others like me to an eternal hell because we do not believe the same as you.  Well, I guess if people like you are going to be in heaven, then I'd rather go to hell!

well stated, theactualvoiceofreason.  If you are a Chrsitian even after admitting errors and manipulations in the bible, then I admire you.  You are a true believer and stand by your beliefs, while acknowledging there may be flaws in the reasoning.  The Christian community needs more like you if it is to survive.

Dear Rightasrain;

I am so sorry you feel this pain and loss.

We all have a special place and our special time. We are here to learn, and we are here in the most intricate delicate equation known as existence. We may never know the details or why people die, but when we are needed we are here, and when we aren't, we are not.

Gods doesn't think like we do (why would anyone with this much intelligence and power think so simply in terms of punishments in such an earthly way? Give a powerful force more credit that that!) This person wasn't punished, it was their time. You were not punished. If God made all illness disappear (along with every other self and nature-imposed obstacle we experience) what would we do? We'd be bored. God ddin't abandon or refuse help. Perhaps the departing of this person was necessary to affect all the other lives connected to put them on the planned course. Or maybe God made us and left the rest to chance as an experience to relay when they leave our existance. What is important is how this has shaped you. Have you become more compassionate? If someone else loses a dear one, will you use the wisdom to help?

May you find peace and enlightenment.

Revverendkieler:  It doesn't make me upset or feel that you post your writings out of hate.  But out of lack of knowing.  I'm not upset with any unbeliever slamming Jesus.  He can take care of Himself and will when he comes back to Judge both believers and unbelievers.  I cannot fathom a world without God because there would be nothing worth living for.   We would have more depression, suicide, murder etc with no God.  But whether you believe He is there or not does not change the fact that He's there waiting for you to seek Him.  Reverendkieler, like I said the choice of believe is not is your's alone.  I won't try to change your choice, nor will I chastise you for that choice.  However I will pray for you to think about that choice.  Have a good day.

kat48315, what makes you think I have issues in my life?  Because I am atheist?  I am much saner and emotionally stable than the majority of my "Christian" friends.

"you cannot see the feet of the Lord, why do you waste your time debating about the nature of His face?"

Do good, be good, love each other and lets hope god comes back and takes us all.

to ru1377,

So you want me to believe that Christians of today don't carry out murders and genocide in the name of Christ?  Ever been to Bosnia or Serbia?  How about Somalia?  Think Christans didn't kill in the name of religion in those places?

It seems so easy for people to deny the existence of a creator...then they don't have anyone to answer to.  If there was no creator then all laws, all morality and all ethics are out the window.  It is a free-for-all.  

I gotta admit...  This is probably the most wacked out postings that I have ever read.  Both sides of the debate need to realize that they are being dumb.  Do you really think that you will make one side believe that your beliefs are right?  If you don't believe in the existence of God, fine.  If you do believe in God, ok.  Does it affect me... Yes, yes it does.  Because we would rather fight, bicker, and argue to shove it down each other's throats than to make this a better world to live in.  Maybe the reason why God does not want to make his appearance in this world is because he is embarrassed to read the rants in discussions like this.  Or maybe we are all alone in our existence and this is all for nothing.  Does it really matter in the grand scheme of thing?  No.  Would knowing that God exists or doesn’t, fix the economy?  Would it fix poverty?  Would it fix disease?  How about hate towards one another?  No, I don’t think so.  Maybe the bible is just a bunch of made up stories to make us feel better at the end of the day, maybe it is the absolute truth.  That does not matter, what does matter is that if it makes you a better person…  Then believe in it with all of your heart.  If not, find something else that makes you want to be a better person.  Cause at the end of the day, we need to depend on each other to survive.

I do just have 1 question for the religious. If its all part of "God's" plan, then why would the suffering of the young, the infants, terribly abused, murdered, disfigured, horrible illnesses possibly be part of a so called greater plan. To make them hurt, ache, be in continuous pain, never know what its like to be a healthy child. Laughing, playing, just being.They'll never know.That makes absolutley no sense to anyone with a shred of brain power, including myself.

Dear rightasrain, I definately feel the pain you must be suffering. Please read the book called The Shack. It will change your life and perception of God. Believe me God did not cause your young sister to die.

Please read this book

Why is it that, when someone professes or states their opinion or belief that there is no God (I do believe, by the way) or that the Bible is a sham (I think it's been used to manipulate people and has been manipulated and altered, even if by accident through translations) or any other host of beliefs, that I see people who are pro-Christian declaring that those people are full of hate?

I've seen terrible behaviour from people who claim to be Christian. People using violence, shunning fellow man, using hurtful words, why I've seen terrible words even here. What little faith in God to take matters into your own hands, as if that is o.k. (and you know even in the Bible God tells you quite clearly to leave it to Him). Is this what being Christian is about? If so, maybe not being a Christian isn't such a bad thing.

Most of the comments from people who are not pro-Christian or pro-religion are passionate declarations, but not spouting hate or wishing harm.

Maybe turning the other cheek should be practiced a bit more.

I may not believe all you have written, but you sure are allowed to have your beliefs as any other.

And last I remembered, this blogger was baout the mines. Can anyone have anything to say about the article itself?

Your sister dying can neither prove nor deny the existence of God.  Did God cause your sister to have cancer or was it caused by a sinful world with disease and destruction?  you need to stop blamng God, or even worse, denying the existence of God and look towards God for comfort and guidance when dealing with the pain with the loss of your sister.

to reverendkieler:

Am I preaching? I humbly apologize if you have taken offense in what I have said and they way that I have said it, it is just the passion that I have inside of me just wants to get out. Just do me the favor and do not attempt to try to change the way I beleive because you have a different opinion. In other words, I will control the passion of telling you how much I love God and Jesus if you control your ignorance and rantings of a person that has deep issues in his life, far deeper than any post on a website blog can help.

I am not trying to tear others down. I am just proposing what I have learned through the years. To be quite honest, Religious individuals are the ones I have had the most problems trying to shove down my throat what to believe and how I should live, how I am wrong for being the type of person I am.

gahennasuxs,

I am very familiar with Christian teachings and stories of the bible.  And by the way, if you ever want to convert to atheism, just let me know, and I will explain it to you, no pressure.  The choice is then yours.  How does that make YOU feel?  I don't post these writings out of hate, that is why Christians get so upset, because they cannot fathom a world without a god, and are so blind in their ambition that any comments to the contrary are seen as hateful.

The Word of God can be inspired, and infallible and because someone mis- interprets it or comitted an error when they translated it  all of a sudden its not divinely inspired by God. Man is definetly fallible and he can corrupt the tranlation of God,s Word. The difference between those men and the  men that were chosen to write the different books of the Bible is that they were moved by the Holy Spirit to do so,(1 Peter 1:21).And they weren,t just any men but men that gave testimony with their lives and deeds that they were men of faith and moral character and so much more.

Vorteck1:  My dad also died from Cancer, as did my Grandparents on both sides of the family.  Cancer sucks, but try not to blame God.  I promise you she is at a better place then you and I at this very moment.   I find when I think about my family that has died regardless of way, I find peace in knowing that I will see them again in eternity to come.  None of us is guaranteed a certain time period to live.  We are guaranteed a place after that life is over though.  Where will you spend your eternity is your choice.  I believe children are covered until they get to the place of understand and comprehending who and what God is.  Having said that I believe that your sister is in heaven this very moment.  Where will you spend eternity????

StandardofTruth,

The verse you are quoting is Isa. 7:14.  "Therefore, the Lord Himself shall give you a sign.  Behold, a virgin shall conceive......."

The word "virgin" or "almah" may be translated as EITHER "virgin" or "young woman."  If you choose "young woman"  what is the SIGN?  Young women give birth to babies every day, whereas "virgins" do not.

There are other prophecies in the Old Testament or Tanakh that speak of Messiah coming from the "seed of a woman."  The Messiah was to have a miraculous birth, be born in Bethlehem, come before the second temple was destroyed, be a Jew of the tribe of Judah, be "cut off" but not because he deserved it, be rejected by his own people, but be resurrected to "see his seed."  This same Messiah is coming again to judge the quick and the dead.  He is coming as a Lion and not as a Lamb.  He will defeat the forces of the antichrist in Israel and be received by his people Israel as the King, Savior, and Annointed One.  He will usher in 1,000 years of righteous rule on the earth from Jerusalem and his wisdom will exceed Solomon's.  If you don't know this man, you should seek him.  Your eternal soul depends on Him.

You people are crazy there is no god If there were my 7 year old sister would not have died from Cancer. Enough said!

If you wake up one day,  you will have the opportunity to know why your sister was able to get to Heaven before you.

I am so tired of the politically correct "BCE." To placate all the non-Christians we are ignoring that for nearly two thousand years, the calendar was based on the birth of Christ. Whether you believe he was the son of God or not, he was still extremely influential. So, why can't we say BC and AD, instead of the laughable BCE and CE? Other then that, it was an interesting article.

Gahennasuxs…..  That “my friend” is where you and the rest of the bible thumpers are wrong.  It is not the mere mention of his name that gets people upset.  It is what you morons do in his name that gets the sane people upset.

In reading all of the comments, we can witness the following:

People are strong and determined in their beliefs with the same passion as those in the Middle East. There is room for perhaps all of us to be right.

Those who doubt a higher power are displaying ignorance of what is beyond their senses, not taking into account possibilities beyond 3 dimensions. It is possible.

Those who claim the Bible as true are forgetting that the book has indeed been tampered with over 2 dozen times. Do you remeber what it says in the book about what happens when that happens?

You cannot pick and choose if you are going to follow that book. That's it. No negotiating.

Christ is about love and forgiveness. Many who claim to be Christian do not really act Christ-like.

The Bible says you have to respect and follow the law of the land. Many do not in the name of God. Abortion rights are a law. Freedom of expression is a law.

America was not founded on the Bible or Christian values, but was founded on getting away from the church and the restriction of freedom, and there are too many founding fathers who were quoted as such. That is why they believed in the seperation of church and state. No arguing truth.

The Bible, true or not, has many lessons on how to treat others and how to be a good person. Any book that does that should be read for the message to help us be better people, not waved as a weapon.

Being a better person does not mean hurting or harming others. It means offering understanding, compassion, and love. It does not mean being mean spirited or unhelpful. It means being kind and considerate and helpful.

You should be good because its the right thing to do, not to get rewards or access to a better place. Any higher power would see this as an awful reason and missing the point.

We all are allowed to find our own way in out own speed. All we can do is be a good person and live by example. Being unhelpful, unneighbourly, mean spirited, exclusionary, cruel, harmful, violent is the wrong way, and will only come back to you.

Judgement is mine, says the Lord...so why are the strong believers taking matters into their own hands? You were told not to in the Bible.

Unite rather than divide.

So stop trying to force the other's hand. You ALL have your own beliefs. Pray for enlightenment, wisdom and love (or meditate if you have no beliefs). What harm is this?

You people are crazy there is no god If there were my 7 year old sister would not have died from Cancer. Enough said!

It's amazing that the belief in the One True God can stir up so much hate and discontent.  But I guess that's been happening since fall of man.  (i.e. Adam eating an apple).  There is so much hate for this country and the people in it because of this crap some of you call discussion.  Just the mere mention of the name of Jesus gets people all up in arms.  But that has been happening since the first century.  If you are not a believer and follower of Jesus Christ, don't get so angry at those that are that you must try and tear others down.  There is one true and living God.  It is true he went by many names, "I am", "The Living God", etc.  The bible is very specific, let me correct that Jesus was very specific, "The only way to the Father is through the Son, (i.e. to get  to God you got to go through the Jesus.)  There is no and's, or's, if's or but's.

I never knew an article on King Solomon's mines would stir up such hate and discontent.  If you don't believe in God and His Son Jesus that is your choice, if I believe in God and His Son Jesus, and I do, then that is my choice.  But, we are all Americans and we need to pull together regardless of our Faith in God or lack there of.  If you are not a believer, and are interested in becoming one, I would be glad to explain it to you, no pressure.  The choice is then yours.  However, I will pray for those posting here and in America that are not believers in Christ that you will find the way.  There is a Heaven and there is a Hell.  We are all guaranteed an eternity or life after death.  Where you spend it will be your choice.

I'm not speaking of a religion.  I am speaking stictly on the believe and acceptance of Jesus Christ as your personal savior.  Scientist and atheist have done more to try and discredit Christ and God because they have chosen something or someone else as God in their lives.  We are all designed to seek after "God".  Some people, such as athiest put themselves as position of God in their lives, others put animals, statues or whatever they find.  There is however one God, and He is a living, loving, caring God.  But he also is sending His Son back to be judge the living and dead.  If those who believe are right, and I believe we are, then those whom believe in Christ as Savior will live an eternity in heaven and those that don't will live in Hell.  

Don't think of religion, Christ is not a religion.  Being a Christian means that we are followers of Christ.  There is Historical data to back  this believe, and there comes a point where you must get past the data and turn to belief and faith.  You can't see oxgen, and hydrogen but you know it's there because you can breath.  You can't see the wind but you can hear it at times and you take in belive that it's there.  Just because you can't see Jesus at this time does not mean he doesn't exist.  You have to take it on faith and believe.  I will be praying for those here that don't believe.  I love you, and the most important thing is that Christ loves you.  After all he sacrificied himself on the cross for you.  What greater form of love is there.

"God doesn't believe in Athiest's but He still loves them anyways."

YET AGAIN !,,,,,THE BIBLE IS PROVED TO BE 100% ACCURATE......WHEN WILL THIS UNBELIEVING WORLD WAKE UP !

JIM T.

Get a life. Who cares. We have real problems happening right now. If these people took the same initiative to help people starving to death and being slaughtered this very moment then perhaps the bible and these peoples supposed faith might mean something. Too many sheep that are easily lead off the mountain by fools hoping to attain fame in there perspective fields. Lord protect me from your flock.

"When I'm God, everyone DIES!!!!

- Marilyn Manson

Posted By: internalconflict3 (October 28, 2008 at 3:09 PM)

I grew up in a Baptist church, My Grandmother was an Adventist, My mother is now a methodist, my wife and her family are Seventh Day Adventist. I've read and studied the bible. I've heard the arguments from all sides, and the only conclusion I can fathom is they all have one thing in common. If you don't believe what this certain religion believes, then your wrong, going to hell for ALL ETERNITY. All religion is , something to put the population under its control such as government. Which both have in common always wanting money. If you need someone to tell you how to live your life, or a book of storys compiled long ago, which has been interpreted or updated, or revised as many times as the bible, then truly, what's the point.

Try reading for yourself.  If you truly want the answer to your question.

To: reverendkieler

In response to your comment to "redwing2," I think that he was simply stating that generally Christians today don't actively participate in the slaughter, bombing, and terrorism of people, regardless of their religious beliefs.  That behavior is looked upon by many in the Muslim community as positive, and they actively support it.  Please don't try and attempt to say that they don't, and that the majority of the Muslim community is peaceful.  They may be peaceful among themselves, however, that does not reflect their views towards the United States, Christians, Israel, and Jews.  It was made evident post 9/11 through numerous polls in all of the Islamic nation-states that the majority of Muslims support terrorism against Christians and Jews.  Furthermore they lauded openly the attacks on the United States.  They view us as infidels and want no involvement from us in their affairs.  Meanwhile the Islamic nation-states that have vast oil deposits gladly take our money.  When the oil quits flowing to the West, and the transfer of wealth ends, we'll see how they view us......

Posted By: uhhhhh what? (October 28, 2008 at 3:08 PM)

"not everybody that is rich is also greedy."  No, just the vast majority!

OK.  Fess up.  Who told you there was more hay than needles!?

It amazed me how Christians "know" what god wants and desires for us.  And you know this how?  Oh, yeah, the bible.  I have news for you:  A human could not understand the nature of an entity (if there were one), like God, any more than a horse can understand what it is to be human.  YOU DON'T KNOW, YOU BELIEVE!!!!  THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.

Posted By: internalconflict3 (October 28, 2008 at 2:57 PM)

He's all seeing, all powerful, all knowing, highest power of all, but he needs money!!!!!! He created the universe, but he just can't get that money thing down. quote George Carlin

later paraphrased by Obama

Rm8hue:  you need to learn to spell.  I am sorry god made you slow.

I grew up in a Baptist church, My Grandmother was an Adventist, My mother is now a methodist, my wife and her family are Seventh Day Adventist. I've read and studied the bible. I've heard the arguments from all sides, and the only conclusion I can fathom is they all have one thing in common. If you don't believe what this certain religion believes, then your wrong, going to hell for ALL ETERNITY. All religion is , something to put the population under its control such as government. Which both have in common always wanting money. If you need someone to tell you how to live your life, or a book of storys compiled long ago, which has been interpreted or updated, or revised as many times as the bible, then truly, what's the point.

"not everybody that is rich is also greedy."  No, just the vast majority!

kat48315,

You start by saying a grown person should not force one's beliefs on another unless they ask for more.  Who asked you for more here?  You defy your own advice and continue to preach.  What gives?

Rm8hue,

You are exactly the type of person the church drools over.  Did you go to any formal educational institution at all in your life?  What the hell are you rambling about, and where did you learn to spell it?

"BCE" is another denial of the Christ's influence upon this world and the history of this world.

Interesting ~ but sad ~ to see it [again] in an article about history and the Bible.

I am a Christian, and one thing I know about life and living in this world that we all live in is that God has given us all a choice and freedom to believe, decide, and act.  That is how much he cares for us.  He is not a God that chooses for us.  Also, the reason for all of the commandments, laws, and precepts that are in the Bible is for all of humanity to see that we cannot abide by them and that we need another way...that way is by trusting that Jesus Christ died for all of our inabilities to keep the law (sins), and that we have life, spiritually, because Jesus is really alive.  If this is offending you, then this is only happening because it has happened ever since the message of Christ was heard by humanity's ears.  It is your own choice after the offense occurs as to what you will continue to believe.  Let these words culminate and focus on them and then ask yourself after a while if you still don't feel a little tug at the fact that you should consider looking more at God's Word, if you do, start in the book of John, and read with an open heart and mind.  If you don't then you have quenched the Holy Spirit's call on your life.  Pray that it wasn't your last opportunity...God is patiently waiting and wanting for all of humanity to come to salvation, not willing that any will die lost.

I think it's just terrible what goes on in the world. We must be more aware and involved in our surroundings. We can choose to do nothing or we can stand up and be heard. I appreciate the fact that their are such news organizations that provide the world such information so that we can make informed decisions in our lives. Thank you,

shogopogo,

I bet you're a real gas at parties.  If God is dead and we killed him, he wasn't really God.

. "you cannot see the feet of the Lord, why do you waste your time debating about the nature of His face?"

I forgot who said this but this is exactly what reminds me when I read the arguments

As  Posted By: Hendu71 (October 28, 2008 at 1:56 PM)

Actually, if you are a "Christer" and Islam is true, you're fooked.  If you're Muslim and Christianity is true, you're fooked.  If you're a Mormon and Catholicism is true, you're fooked.  If you're a protestant... well, you get the picture.

Do good, be good, love each other and lets hope god comes back and takes us all.

It is amazing to me that a grown person will try to make another grown person believe one thing or the other. When It comes to faith and my beliefs I know where I stand and I know what I have to do in my life. I will talk to another person and if that person wishes to know more, so be it, if not I do not force my belief on anypne. When one chooses not to believe, it is just that,a choice. God gave us the free will of choice and as for me I would rather be laughed at and mocked by the people here on earth for believing the way I do, then to take the chance that I will stand before God one day .

It also amazes me how far the world has separated itself from God and I have the feeling that God is getting ready to be done with us and that death and destruction are very near. Oh I hear you non believers now just laughing at the thought of an Armegeddon. Laugh if you will, but there are many instances in the Bible when God has showed his anger on a nation. God has blessed this country beyond out wildest dreams and the people do nothing more than mock Him. Read Jeremiah 7.

StandardofTruth,

Well-stated!!  The bible was interpreted more times than Cat Stevens has converted.  Did you all know that the precept upon which Christianity is based is just plain incorrect?  The "virgin" was actually mis-interpreted, and the original Aramaic word meant "young woman".  There are so many mis-interpretations and errors in the Bible, I can't begin to list them here.  Any my point is, if the Bible was "inspired" and the "true, correct, complete word of God", then if there were any errors, even one single error, it is disproven right there to be that which it is professed to be.

For uhhhhh-what?

Yes Christ did tell one rich young ruler to sell his belongings.  However, it ended there. The rich young ruler did not want to do that, so he left.  Big difference.  If Obama is elected and implements his plan, the government will not give me the choice of selling all my wealth and giving to the poor I WANT TO GIVE TO.  They will take more of my money and give to those who already don't pay any income taxes.  Just in case you're wondering, I give a larger percentage of my gross income to charities than the democratic candidates combined.

He's all seeing, all powerful, all knowing, highest power of all, but he needs money!!!!!! He created the universe, but he just can't get that money thing down. quote George Carlin

As far as cristain geos the word means crist like this tell you anything?

He made it simple for us because he knew we could never be saved by the law of god So he made it as simple as just belive in him as your savor ans you will be saved.

And for the non belivers I'm Sorry .

Lets put it in simple form for those who just dont belive If You Belive And there Is COOL.

You are in the right groove.

Those whom DONT BELIVE and there is where does this out you?

Simple everlasting or slave of the under world? your choice And all yours!  

Faith is a personal choice that all people need to make on their own! We can all sit here and argue these facts until the world ends and not be any closer to the truth.The decision to believe or not to needs no argument. Organized religions, or any church led by man, are inevitably corrupt! I am not against christian values or any other faith for that matter. I simply think that it should be between that person and whatever form of god they choose!

"God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?"

Fredrick Nietshe

He understood this a hundred and fifty years ago. Too bad Athiest cannot understand this..

Jack2005,

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.  No man cometh to the Father (God) but by Him (Jesus).  Ask and ye shall receive, seek and ye shall find, knock and the door will be open unto you.  If you're sincerely are searching the way, ask Jesus in your heart and to forgive you of all of your sins, and you will know he is real.  All have sinned and come short of the glory of God (including me).

I THINK RELIGION WILL HELP THE TAMPA RAYS PULL THIS ONE OUT!!  I REALLY THINK HE'S ON THEIR SIDE.

Evidence, interpretation of evidence and fact get scrambled sometimes. The Bible no doubt is full of history. I do not think that is disputed

But where science sees the earth as tiny spot in the universe, the Church saw earth as the center of the universe and put many to death that disagreed with them. To say that faith is based upon evidence may be true but I would say faith is an interpretation of evidence as it can be tied into a belief system.

Where I disagree with religion often is that they seek to prove what they think is true. A scientist may seek to prove what he believes, but that is then subject to review of other scientists. Even if they all know what that scientist said was correct, if it can not be proven it is not a fact. Evolution is in that category.

Science has not only the freedom, but the obligation to say, "I do not know." Religion has neither of those.

Going back to the earlier article, whether or not those mines existed has no relevance. Not even the most hard lined atheist will deny that the Bible does contain history and people mentioned certainly were believed to have existed. The atheist/scientist just questions their religious views.

uhhhhh what,  You are absolutely correct!  He would champion the poor,  the outcasts, Rush, Karl, you and me.  Not everybody that is "rich" is also greedy.  Ther is the proverbial "needle" every now and then.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me - John 14:6

That's all that needs to be said.  Jesus despised 'religion' too.  Look into it and you will find life.

To redwing2,

So Christians never killed anyone, huh?  You do know better than that, don't you?

Oneoftheflock said:

"A Christian is one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ and is a follower of Him. Jesus Christ is either a liar and a lunatic or Lord. You can't just pick and choose some things Jesus said and diregard the others."

Excuse me?  That has been done from the very beginning.  There are only 4 "firsthand" accounts of Jesus' teachings.  Jesus spoke in Aramaic.  The gospels were written in greek.  There are great discrepancies in the "words of Jesus."  Believe what you will, but the historical record proves that the "picking and choosing" was happening from the git go.  The "adherance" you demand has led to much destruction, pain and suffering - all in the name of God, Jesus, etc.  

There is truth in the teachings but it's not as black and white as you would desire it to be.

redwing2

Go read "Judges".

HEY JACK2005:

MUSIC IS THE REAL RELIGION, JUST LISTEN...

Dear "oneoftheflock",

Apparently, "WOW" is not all you have to say.

rightasrain, I'm not sure I understand your post.  Are you saying I'm misrepresenting Christ's message?  Because I don't think that I am... He did say the rich should give to the poor, did He not?  Christ hates greed, does He not?  If Jesus came back to earth and ran for president, people like Rush Limbaugh and Karl Rove would have a field day smearing him and his platform.  Maybe that's a dumb hypothetical, but think about it....wouldn't Jesus be a champion for the poor and societal outcasts?

jack2005

Don't worry about searching too hard,  "the Way" will find you!

One day soon all this discussion will be over and all will see and confess that Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. This will be a voluntary acknoledgment from all of us. I would rather give Him this acknowledgement from a thankful heart for saving my soul than from a heart that never trusted Him as Lord. No matter what your past, no matter what you have done, "For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life".

For all those who ignore history and believe their pastors, continuing to talk about the United States as a "Christian Nation" or "founded as a Christian Nation" -- which is TOTALLY against the Constitution's admonition to separate "church and state" (i.e., religion and government) -- let me remind you that the founders of the United States after the Revolution (not whichever white people first landed here from Europe) were DEISTS who believed in the principles of the Enlightenment.  That is, they believed in God as a creative force who set the world in motion and then left it (and humanity) to its own devices.

If you want proof, I offer this quote of THOMAS JEFFERSON's (he wrote the Declaration of Independence, remember?):

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feautre.  They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.  Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned.  What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites, to support roguery and error all over the earth."

Amen.

TOMONYMOUS: "It's too bad you all need to believe in some entity, which remarkably resembles yourselves, to get by in the world"

The difference between me (as a Christian, and others and their Jihad) is that I am quite content to believe and tell others my faith hoping they will listen, but I have never killed, never bombed, never threatened ANYONE for any reason, especially because of their faith or lack of.

My God tells me 'They will know you are Christians by your love".  That is not such a bad face to put before the world.

I have started a new religion.  It is called me-ism.  Follow me, my child.  Send your money TODAY!!!  I am THE WAY!!!

What's really funny is so-called "Christians" resorting to name-calling.  Tell me, did Jesus condone calling someone an "ignorant jag-off"?

I AM SEARCHING FOR THE WAY........... will someone tell me which religion is right.  I want to start today.....so please tell. hehe

correction.......Native american was not christian based.

uhhhhh what

I can tell by your posts that you are not the average "left wing" Obama voter.  Please look up the very scriptures you have mentioned and read for yourself.  A "study bible" or commentary will be even more helpful.  Do not rely on what someone else has told you.....including me.

My practice of athiesm makes me a loving husband and father, successful and productive contributor to society, ethical and moral.  I contribute that to being raised well and my own personal set of traits, it has nothing at all to do with religion.

The "missing Link" you refer to is the fossil evidence of a common ancestor for man and ape. It lived 30 million years ago and just because it hasn't ben found, yet, doesn't mean it didn't exist.

WOW!

Fellow true Christians we need to lay hold of 1 Corinthians 14:38 " But if any man be ignorant,let him be ignorant."

Obama states that he is a Christian along with others on this site. It is very obvious that they do not know the definition of a Christian.

A Christian is one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ and is a follower of Him. Jesus Christ is either a liar and a lunatic or Lord. You can't just pick and choose some things Jesus said and diregard the others. If you do you are definitely not a Christian. Maybe you should start your own religion so you do not muddy the name of a Christian. All you need to do is study the teachings of Jesus and you will see the error of your ways. The closer you get to the light the less darkness there is... Enough said!

My comment is directed toward one specific member - - robilar5500 and all I have to say is this:

WOW!!!

What's even more 'hilarious' is the fact that you're so narrow minded on the actuality of the existence of a higher power--which mind you for centuries He has gone by many different names not just one and in every culture!! God is completely justifiable everywhere, and in some cultures you would be stoned to death for just your thoughts--maybe you should go 'visit' there--seeing as you're so completely adament on not believing anything but 'YOUR' thoughts!!!

Well....they do say GOD does wonders?!?! May He help you accept what you are so desperate to ignore---His existence!!!

Keep ranting and raving---it'll get you no where but to the bottom of hell---Have fun you ignorant jag-off!!!

In more prespective of North american history.was not founded by Christians but by american Indians.  by virtue of being white, no prejudice intended, was christian based religion.  ya'll reckon

I hate hippies.

To those who say evolution is "just a theory".  Do you know the definition of a theory in the scientific context?  Gravity, too, is a theory.  And when you believe in something, it is up to you to prove its existence, not up to the rest of the world to prove it doesn't exist.  One more thing, if I'm going to believe in something because I have nothing to lose if it's true, I'm a pathetic individual at that point.  Is that the best credence you can offer for your religion?  Pretty lame.  And by the way, I am a "born-again atheist".  I've read the bible from cover to cover several times and was raised Christian.  I am familiar with the hype.

God is an awesome God and the only GOd, huh?  How many religions say that about how many Gods?  As a "bible thumper", a "Christer", a "Godder", a "Believer" or a "Duper", you're all perilously close to the folks of Jihad and every other splinter group.  It's too bad you all need to believe in some entity, which remarkably resembles yourselves, to get by in the world.  Obviously many forces created our reality, but for you to decide it was a being in your own image, and defend that belief so fervently, is truly absurd.  And dangerous.

areyoukiddingme?, no you have to be kidding me. Yes this country was based on it and then also makes it LAW to seperate church and state. They were trying to pressure Jesus into siding on one or the other. "Give God which is God's". I am God's, I give myself to God, but assuming that Obama supporters are not of God is mixing two things that have nothing to do with each other.

Can the evolutinists admit that there are huge holes in the theory? Do you think transitional fossils will be found someday or can you explain around it?

Did something as genius and complex as DNA really form from nothing?

These may be ignorant questions, but I would like to understand the truth behind what we are teaching our kids, and not have these big questions be swept under the rug.

Evolution seems plausible if you don't dig deep enough into, but much of the Bible can seem implausible UNTIL you dig deep enough into it (or when you take things out of context).

Isn't dog and awsome dog?  

A dyslexic

jakeksm-- terrific post.  We share the exact same life philosophy it seems.

The fact that you do not believe in a Heaven or Hell is not going to make it one degree cooler when you get there.

BlinkoBlinkings,

Do you know your American history?  Maybe you slept through that class in high school or goofed off instead?  But if you actually knew your history, you wouldn't make some sarcastic remark about a "Christian" nation when the U.S. was founded by the Pilgrims and Quakers.  Last I checked, those groups fled England to escape religious persecution.  Therefore, my friend, the United States was a Christian nation in its genesis, regardless of the secular nature of our government.  Only until recently have politically correct offspring of Hippies denied the existence of God and Christianity's place in the American culture.  The problem is that rebelious generation was so vocal as to drown out the majority Christian population that was complacent about their faith and rights in the USA.

According to the polls, most people in this country still claim to be Christian.  But that does NOT mean that we want to live in a theocracy!  Regardless, you and your opinion is in the minority.

Isn't God amazing?!  He leaves His footprints everywhere for people to discover Him.  All we really have to do is read His letter written to us in the Bible & we will know the answers to all of life's questions and discoveries.  Keep looking, or simply read God's Word.  God bless all!

Solid archelologic and scientific evidence may support that the Hebrew Bible was based, at least in part, on historical fact.  For believer and non-believer alike this should be irrelevant.  Faith in deity is based on a totally subjective, internal experience of reality.  The problem comes when humans limit the possible to  the rather short extent of human understanding, rather than accepting that the infinite is infinite.  I am perfectly comfortable believing in God, following Christ, and accepting evolution, a multiple-billions-year-old-earth and the probability of extraterrestrial life.  It is possible that someday I may learn that my faith is groundless.  If so, whom will I have harmed by living according to a ethical code of conduct that requires me to rise above my baser instincts?  Will it matter that that code is inspired by Christ, a person who may someday turn out to be totally mythological?  Not likely.  My practice of faith makes me a good neighbor, a tolerant person, and  frequently better than I would be on my own.  My question is this:  where will you be, if someday, you find that my belief wasn't based in mythos but in reality and that iot is your belife structure that is based in error?

My apologies aspenmd. My comment was meant for robilar5500.

dr speed---Where is the missing link that applies to your statement? There isn't a link that has been discovered.

Hendu71  That is about the closest thing to the truth.  As I stated earlier, just because a bunch of people thought up various stories doesn’t mean its true.  So, not believing in false stories is good.  Better to believe anything is possible and know that for a book coming from a perfect place has way too many inconsistencies.  What perfect being would let his word be so mistranslated and taken out of context?  So bottom line, all is a bunch of fairy tales.  And besides, in this day in age, I think a better “bible (religion)” could be thought up and written….. much better than the ones we have now.  But I will be the first to say no one knows before the big bang.  So….. who knows before that?

driver1234, I don't think anyone thinks abortion is awesome.  I think it's an unfortunate and disgusting part of our society, but making abortion illegal wouldn't end abortion anyway.  I would be in favor of having strict requirements for abortions, but not outlawing them altogether.  So I consider myself pro-choice, but you won't find me preaching to pro-lifers because I understand where you're coming from.  

I just resent your comment about anyone who votes for Obama can't be a Christian.  What absolute nonsense.  Christ's message is extremely "liberal" and socialist.  Didn't He urge the rich to part with all their earthly possessions and give to the poor?  Isn't it easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven?  Or do we just choose to ignore the majority of Christ's message?  The "Christian" Republican party thinks that concept is evil...this never ceases to baffle me.

OK, how did this article turn into a discussion about politics, religious philosphy and generally nasty sniping at people you don't even know?  All you people need to take a deep breath, then go do a little bit of research on where all of your religious customs and belief came from.  It is truly interesting if you can keep an open mind. You will find that many of our Judeo Christian beliefs came from earlier religions and we borrowed heavily from them.  

Jesus did not seperate himself from politics. He knew what the Pharasees were doing when they asked him what he should do. One must take the Bible in context to whom it was written. Politics and Christianity do and should mix. This country was founded on Biblical priciples. How can one seperate one's self from what he believes in and what his political offiliation reflects? One cannot.

In matters dealing with Creationism and the Big Bang Theory, it's a matter of simple mathematics. When adding, 1+1=2. Correct? Yes. In terms of Big Bang Theory--NOTHING + NOTHING= EVERYTHING? That is something that just cannot add up. Think it may be juvinille? Childish? Even evolution discounts the The Second Law of Thermodynamics.

You see it a common place that those who do not believe in God and have not accepted Jesus as their Savior are all angry. They use language that tears others down, that calls them names, that tries to negate and falsify other's reactions. Just remember what Jesus said when asked what the greatest commandment was: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your strength. And, love your neighbor as yourself.

God bless all of you. Even those who will tear this piece down and make fun of it. Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.

Everyone has a right to their beliefs. To aspenmd, I just have to say you are in the minority on this one. There are millions more people who believe in God than those who do not. I am not knocking your right to believe that there is no higher power, but to call those of us who believe idiots just shows me that you must be one of those few " I am right and everyone else is wrong crowd"

God is an Awsome God and the only God!

With His Love we will all learn to do His will.

True religion is taking care of widows and orphans.

Why is it so hard fo everyone to follow ten simple commandments?

We did not get our way when we were children because our parents new we needed guide lines.

We must remember, we are all children of God, no matter how many years we are blessed to do His will.

By doing His will, through Jesus, is the ONLY way we will recieve the peace in our heart we are all looking for.

Basic

Instructions

Before

Leaving

Earth

Bible, makes sence to me.

With His Love,

Child of God

Evolution is not a theory , it is a fact. Those knowledgable in evolution and archeology will tell you that apes, monkeys and man evolved from a common ancestor about 30 million years ago. Natural selection and genetic changes allowed for the hominid to evolve through Austropithecus homo erectus and neanderthal to homo sapien - the modern human. If there is a God, and I am open minded, why did he "create" dinosaur and early hominid fossils?

I must go off topic to answer driver1234.....You right to lifers are so transparent it makes me sick....the only reasons why you are against "Choice"  are.

                                                             !. Less, little Christians to brain wash.

                                                            2. Would not have enough men/women of military age to

                                                                fight your crusades.

it amazes me how non belivers can be so harsh and judgemental. angry at people who have faith and then try to run them/us down. what are you proving? REALLY? you are angry and sad is all i get out of it, you arent making any one of us feel angry about what you say by calling us "bible thumpers". which when i visualize that i see thumper the walt disney character standing and thumping on a bible!

so go on and keep with the bashing, you are not ever going to make a real christian fall and follow your angry ways. we will keep having faith and believing in our God. it makes us happy and content and isnt that how life should be?

be angry if that makes you happy!

driver1234, you are no one to be telling people what they are or are not. The final judgment day will come and the real judge and jury will be out. You assumptions as to what or who is right may very well be your downfall. Personally, you are nobody to challenge my Christianity, As far as abortion goes, I would rather educate children to avoid an unwanted pregnancy in the first place which is something Obama believes in.

whats sad and pathetic is such a lack of belief.. i by no means am a religious fanatic or even actively religious and very often disengage an argument without fact, but to completely disregard any possibilities just because it hasn't been proven (yet) is ignorant in itself. to be entertained by it is depraved. since there will never be proof of something (in your mind) means to stop searching for answers? ingnorant. "in no other walk of life or discussion would you ever be allowed to ignore the lack of fact to support your arguments" except maybe.. politics, the media, def the weather, entertainment.. i would argue thats more irresponsible. however, i understand why someone as 'objective' as you cannot identify with faith.. it's an emotion. a general feeling that you seem to ignore due to lack of fact. but the fact is in the feeling. there is an overall sense of conscience humans share. undeniable yet unidentifiable and yet you still need your proof to believe it (?) that on some level, there is a bond.. a commonality of spirit in individuals. a soul. science cannot explain a soul.. can't disect it and so it must not be there. it must not exist, yet it does.. in moments of tragedy especially it is apparent. and likewise, being as the words are written, who are you to know fiction from nonfiction. who is anyone to know? yet you're set to not believe as others are set to believe. who are you to be right? superiority complex much? get over yourself. at least with believers there is something more to explore. you have nothing- what are your facts? moreover for some tales to undoubtably have historic content.. objectively, wouldn't it be more likely for the context to be based on actual circumstances than to not?  

"If there is a God and you believe all He is saying through deciples, phrophets, and science and there is a Heaven, you lose nothing.

However, if you don't believe there is a God and we "Christers" or "believers" are right, you lose everthing."

Actually, if you are a "Christer" and Islam is true, you're fooked.  If you're Muslim and Christianity is true, you're fooked.  If you're a Mormon and Catholicism is true, you're fooked.  If you're a protestant... well, you get the picture.

Believing in something doesn't mean you have nothing to lose.  Not believing something doesn't guarantee a loss.  You can't place bets on faith, that is a fallacy of Pascal's Wager.   If you were going to place the safest bet, it would be that anything's possible.

It could even be that a supreme being - if there is one - will give the greatest rewards to those that think for themselves and don't follow some pre-packaged belief system that says everyone that believes differently is going to hell.

well, Anti_Politix_Pro_Morals I think most get upset with bible thumpers because of the influence on politics.  When you have an idiot running the country and believes in this stuff….. it’s a problem.  By the way, which religion is right….. I am guessing yours.

In response to "sword-in'pen" may I submit that I CAN prove the Bible is true.  The fact that Jews and a re-born Israel exist is one of the modern-day miracles.  Oddly enough, G-d through His prophets promised that Israel would never stop being His chosen nation, the one through whom His story of redemption would unfold to the world.  Israel and the Jewish people have given us the Torah, the Tanakh, the B'rit ha dashah, the prophets, the covenants, and the Messiah.  Though most Jews today have today rejected Him as The Annointed One, the Jewish prophets foretold this and predict there is a day coming when ALL Israel will look upon Him whom they have pierced and be in mourning for Him.  On that day they will receive Him as their Messiah and King.  I believe this because G-d always tells the truth.  Baruch Ha Shem!

Off topic: But anyone who votes for a man who states that one of his first actions in office will be to sign the Freedom of Choice Act can not seriously consider themselves to be Christian. The highest commandment after loving god is to love your neighbor. You don't do that by killing or condoning the killing of unborn children.

In response to "sword-in'pen" may I submit that I CAN prove the Bible is true.  The fact that Jews and a re-born Israel exist is one of the modern-day miracles.  Oddly enough, G-d through His prophets promised that Israel would never stop being His chosen nation, the one through whom His story of redemption would unfold to the world.  Israel and the Jewish people have given us the Torah, the Tanakh, the B'rit ha dashah, the prophets, the covenants, and the Messiah.  Though most Jews today have today rejected Him as The Annointed One, the Jewish prophets foretold this and predict there is a day coming when ALL Israel will look upon Him whom they have pierced and be in mourning for Him.  On that day they will receive Him as their Messiah and King.  I believe this because G-d always tells the truth.  Baruch Ha Shem!

You're hilarious robilar5500, with the same crap you're spouting you're actually worse than those you claim are faith baseless.  What makes you think that you as an unbeliever are actually smarter or even wiser than those who choose to believe.  Any idiot can see that the complex order of the universe or even the complexities of the human body along with all of nature declare God's glory. You don't even have to THUMP a Bible to realize that there is Someone greater than our little finite minds can even comprehend.  God's Word has always confounded the so-called wise. You have scientists & scholars from all walks trying to disprove the infallable Word of God, they've been doing it for centuries and prove the Word more than dissprove it.  Do your homework.  

Pathetic? Read out loud and listen to your rant.  I bet you're angry, mad at everyone for not being an unbeliever like you.  Guess what?  We believers will pray for you anyhow that your soul will eventually be at rest in Christ Jesus.  Stop running, it's okay, God still loves you, now that's crazy.

nwtfdan, it's clear that you have been very poorly educated on evolution.  "Why are there still apes?" is a very basic question that only someone with little understanding of evolution would ask, and it has been answered countless times by scientists (or anyone with a decent education)

Not_Rich , I disagree with robilar5500 but am more bothered by your comment. It is not Christian to be judgmental. I am a "hard core" Obama supporter and a Christian.  “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.” Matthew 22 15-22. Jesus himself separated religion and politics. He did not fall into entrapment that it seems a lot of McCain supporters are putting Christian Obama supporters in the corner by which is a contradiction of Christian philosophy in itself. I believe that some have a strong faith system and others are always looking for verification. Those looking for verification will not find proof because the proof is in testimony. I have seen many miracles that have no scientific explanation, but I was a witness to them.

To VFW6986

I wondered if there was anything in there too...

To put it simply, "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are saved it is the power of God."  I Corinthians 1:18  If truth is what you are after

I would challenge you to sit down and read the book of I John from the Bible - and do so with an open mind.  If nothing there strikes a note of truth to you then move on in your search.   For me it changed my life.  

As a "bible thumper", a "Christer", a "Godder", a "Believer" and a "Duper", I think this is cool, but somewhat irrelevent to the existance of God and deity of Christ.  So, I'm not sure what the heated argument here is about.  That being said, String Theory and the Theory of Everything, work best when centered around a Creator.  They can't seem to fit the pieces together just right, but if you add intelligent design, it makes sense.  Do I believe nothing EVER evolved? No.  Do I believe humans evolved from an ape?  No.  I find that the most "open-minded" atheist is more close-minded than the most closed-minded "Crispy" (as my husband used to lovingly call us).  Why does believing in God make you irresponsible?  I find it more irresponsible to assume that we humans and all the universe, were created from nothing and yet we are intelligent enough to figure that all out ALL ON OUR OWN!  Now THAT is irresponsible pride!  I just wonder why atheists are so angry, if in fact, they don't believe in God.  If it was that simple, why would you even care enough to snub us uneducated, simple-minded, irresponsible, judgemental, foolish, foolish evolved monkeys.  

Nobody looks down on Steven Hawkings for believing in the string theory, which is way kookier than believing in a Creator.  However, I think he's more right than wrong as well!

I think that "Spaghetti Monster" needs to go back on his meds.  He sounds like the same kind of individual that would label proposition 8 supporters in California narrow-minded racist bigots!

Since "Mr. Monster's" logic appears to have holes in it, I would presume that he never took or passed a college level philosophy course?  The electricity example cracks me up...maybe that's why the Amish don't use electricity...because they don't believe in evolution!  Jesus Freaks rule!

[LOL]  By the way, VOTE YES ON PROP 8 if you live in CA.  It doesn't affect domestic partnership!

Science is proving the bible a true, historical account.  But what about evolution??? If it is real and has made us what we are, why are there still apes????  Did your iron-clad chain of evolution break somewhere along the way and leave some of our "cousins" behind?  Species adapt to survive: they don't morph into new species.  IF all you evolutionists ever found any proof, then you would have a platform to stand on: for now, you all just sound like lost sheep searching for something to base your beliefs on......talk about faith........it takes a lot of it to believe in evolution when there is no proof!

Let us choose our words wisely. I know it may seem strange that some people believe in someone whom you obviously regard as myth, but that in it self is a belief. Can u prove that God doesn't exist. I thought not and as for me proving He does. I don't have to. You see true Christianity is not about me condemning you for your unbelief nor is it about me giving some sort of proof so that you believe differently. It is my job to tell you about the gospel Christ and whether you believe or not that is up to the conviction of the Spirit of God upon your heart. I know that many people for whatever reason have distorted so much the true reason for this lifestyle, but you cannot look at that as your definitive answer. If you really want to know, not just assume you know, why don't you search the scriptures with an open mind and not with preconceived rejection. Lastly, on proof, the Word of God stands on its own. Look at the evidence. I mean story after story told in truth confirm piece by piece what has already been said. That God exists and His Word is true. There is no argument only truth. Peace. Visit www.sword-in-pen.com

It's truly laughable that a science teacher could think that dinosaurs and homo sapiens ever co-existed, sorry.

And blinko Obama did help to change things....hmmm like suing banks to give broke ass idiots loans, and lo and behold, Obama has already created and economic crisis without even being president.

Did someone really just say it was faith that allowed the Wright Brothers to build the airplane, not science?  Birds gave mankind the idea of flight long, long ago.  Then with advances in science and technology, the age-old dream was able to become a reality.  Faith played no role whatsoever-- only human ingenuity and perseverance.  Good grief, lol

Faith is based on evidence.  Science supports a belief in God more than it denies Him.  "All things denote there is a God".  Read the big bank theory,  It is more outlandish by far than any discussion of creation.  I find it funny that non-believers spurn any evidence of biblical things but embrace theories conjured up by the unenlightened who, even themselves, admit they don't comprehend the uncomprehensible.  

It's hilarious that you care so much about what other people believe and call them pathetic.  You talk like a scientist, but you're a dude posting on a Newsweek blog you idiot.  Don't go flipping out, because then you piss people like me off, of whom are far beyond you.

The bible was written after Jesus died, really?  The Old Testament hadn't been written by numerous authors who had never spoken to each other over the course of centuries before Jesus, predicted the Messiah, yet had all the same morals and similar stories?  Looking at that scientifically, what an axtreme coincedence.  Or that you say God could only be proven by facts; obviously if God could be proven that defeats the purpose of us even being here.  Any God who can create the inifinite, I hope, could fool some guy calling everyone pathetic while sitting on his ass at his computer.

And then you of all people try to explain the infinite universe.  Funny, how the universe has a finite mass, of which is all expanding from a center.  So not only is the universal mass finite, thus infinite possibilities of other life are far from true, it's all moving outward signifying a beginning.  And among that, life was somehow made, despite odds that are far greater than the number googleplex, which shows just how hard it is to create only a SINGLE PROTEIN, beyond that I couldn't even imagine the calculation for a full society of life.  And the very fact that just by using logic we have an idea of God, and that idea of a supreme being is so similar to the christian God depicted in the bible that it's amazing.

In conclusion, you're just bitter because after you die you believe you are going to be erased from existence, and that does truly suck being erased from eternity, I couldn't even fathom that.  But don't try to be that guy that ruins it for everyone else. Even if by some chance there is no God that created the universe, whether it the creation God who has a connection with us, or a constant life-giving God who has no real connection to us and thus cares not if we live forever, why would you want to call people ignorant for believing so that they can accept dying? You're an *** who only lives on other people anger, and to try to take that hope from them you try to take a person's soul; I wouldn't want to be that guy.

Wow!! I can’t believe people can still debate this.  All you can say about religion is you don’t know……. Because you don’t.  oh…. And the bible(s)….just a book(s) written by a bunch of yahoos with the same question everyone has and has had since the beginning (why are we here).  The books were written way before any type of real scientific work was in progress (and it shows).  It really isn’t a debatable subject.  

robilar5500 you are in my prayers. I'm not sure what your outburst was supposed to prove. Maybe you felt the need to justify an empty existence by attacking those who have seen the truth. I don't know. I can only hope that some day He touches your heart and opens your eyes to the true reality.

I am a science teacher in high school and if you want to listen to some hard facts then here it is. Human footprints have been found in the same layer or rock as dinosaur footprints. This layer washed out of bedrock at the bottom of a wash in colorado. What about stalagtites in caves? Does it really take millions of years to form? Well, it doesn't there is a place in texas where someone had put a pipe in the ground and a stalagtite has formed there in the past 100 years. In the bible it says that there were giants in the early days. Human remains have been found that are 8 feet up to 10 feet tall. Some of those finds contained at least 10-20 of those skeletons. Now that you have some REAL FACTS try and not talk about something that you do not know about. Try and get an EDUCATION.

“We can’t believe everything ancient writings tell us,” Levy said.

Apparently Levy, and robilar5500 never read or hardly know the Bible.  The Old Testament, written before the birth of Jesus, has so far proven to be 100% concerning the Book of Chronicles.  People forget, including arrogant atheists, that the Old Testament was a written HISTORICAL RECORD of the Jews (Hebrews) before the "common era", otherwise known as BC (Before Christ).

Believe it or not, archaeology has already proven many "fictional biblical characters" to be real.  Unfortunately, many naysayers go of about the fictional nature of the Bible without doing any serious research to support their hypothesis.  Every year, archaeologists unearth new "tels" or ancient cities that were mentioned by name in the Bible.  Yet the Bible is nothing more than a "fairy tale".  These are the same critics who have FAITH in evolution despite the missing link!

What I tell people about God is simple and straightforward:  I you believe in Him and you're wrong, what do you have to lose?  But if you mock him and turn out to be wrong, you're going down the "highway to hell" after Judgment Day.  It takes FAITH to believe in the Big Bang, too!

ok robilar -

riddle me this one - granted - the big bang existed - where did the first principle of movement come from.  remember that something explained with infinity explains nothing.  two basic scientific acceptances - 1.  first principle of movement  and 2.  infinate explaination arent explainations.  that is why the scientific community is still at a loss for how the big bang was initiated - it still cont figure out the first principle of movement without a chicken or the egg train of logic.  

Response to NOT_RICH

Im a christian and will vote for whomever I choose, not at the direction of you and your similar radical group that profess to be  christians. You and yours bring very much disfavor on all of our faith. why not let the idiots out there be them selves, it will usually come forth of its own accord who and what they are, without any help from spouters like yourself. By the way, I am a Obama supporter, does that make me wrong or just free to make my own decisions, without the influences of focus on the family?

robilar5500, why are you so angry? Nobody is forcing you to believe anything.

Your hysterics are a little overboard.

VFW6986, no, sorry, they're COPPER mines:

"has unearthed what they identify as an ancient center for copper production"

Too bad  you only read the headline, not the article.

Geez robilard5500 did you get diddled by a priest when you were 9.  I can feel the heat from your raging hatred from here.  Calling people pathetic and pitiful does little to bolster your argument.  Perhaps you ought to explore why it brings up such hateful emotions for you. If you want to be an atheist, go ahead, but please don't judge me.  I find it interesting that little more than ten thousand years ago we were basically little more than apes, and in that short period of cosmic time scientists have discovered everything there is to discover, know everything there is to know, and can unequivocally assure all that there is no god.  Unfortuneately the world of "science" has been rife with its own set of quacks, charlatans, ghouls, and snake oil salesman for many hundreds of years.  If you want facts, OK, the fact is there may be a God, I personally choose to believe there is.  You as an atheist cannot prove there isn't.  If I choose to believe in signs to bolster my belief, what do you care as long as I am not forcing my belief down your throat.  

I'm sick of you hillbilly Bible-thumpers. I cannot wait for Obama to change things around here. You people have ruined this country.

Wait! I suppose you will say Santa does not exist.....well somebody is going to get more then just coal in thier stocking this year! It's gonna be warm and steamy too!

If there is a God and you believe all He is saying through deciples, phrophets, and science and there is a Heaven, you lose nothing.

However, if you don't believe there is a God and we "Christers" or "believers" are right, you lose everthing.

C. S. Lewis was not a believer.  May I suggest you read his jorney to becoming a believer.

Not_Rich... you realize you are that way because you voted for Bush twice, right?  Should have gone with the good economic plan and not the "faith-based initiative."

Well, the story was about a cooper mine that they found and whether or not it is one King Solomon's mine.  Since there is proof (historical as well as biblical) that shows  David was a King in Isreal and Solomon was a King of Isreal after his father, David, died, I don't believe there is any need to prove or disprove anything about God.  I believe the article is actually stating that they may have found King Solomon's mine.  I find it very interesting that they were able to find so old with artifacts from the  Pharaoh Sheshonq I's time period.  The idea that this find may provide facts to support biblical information is just an added plus in my opinion.

Regardless of our beliefs, we'll all call out his name when the end comes. Judge not...

To he's real... King Solomon was way before Jesus, you idiot, so this is not evidence of his "1st coming."  You should read the book you believe so whole heartedly in.  

To deathsbaine... You have no concept of the difference between a law and theory.  Electricity is a theory.  I think people who think we shouldn't teach evolution shouldn't be allowed to use electricity, either.  All or none.

To Americanfreedom... we can choose what we want to believe.  What you people want is the opposite of freedom.  It's called Theocracy.  The same as they have it in Iran.  I bet you think America should be a "Christian" nation, traitor.

IN OTHER NEWS: The mask of Agamemnon was found in 1876.  This proves that Chaos created the earth when he yawned out Gaia... same logic you Jesus-freaks use to prove creation via the bible.

Thank you, Liege_Killer.  I was about to say the same thing.  I get tired of both far sides of this discussion going on and on and never giving the other any creedence.

The religious right trying to tell us that evolution is just a "theory", when, if they bothered to educate themselves on the issue, would find that the word "theory" in science has a very different meaning than the word "theory" used in other contexts.  (Go ahead, look it up.)

The scentific left (if you will), telling us that God and religion have nothing to do with anything, just because we can't (yet?) prove God's existence.

It certainly makes more sense to me that all of this is a combination of both.  Who is to say that no one created the universe and human beings?  Who can tell us that it is absolutely impossible for a being of enough understanding and power to create everything we know (and have yet to know) any more than 10 minutes ago, and that we were created intact with all memories created for us and with all evidence of evolution and the scientific basis of the universe in place?

The bible is a book of history.  The Hebrew bible was written by humans centuries after most of the events happened (and yes, I am aware of the Dead Sea Scrolls.) How good are our memories?  How many times can a story be carried by word-of-mouth before it loses resemblance to what really happened?  My guess is a couple of generations can destroy 50% of any truth.  Maybe even less time.

I don't think archaeologists are trying to disprove the Bible.  I think most of them are trying to understand our history and relish when the findings directy related to ANY written history.

When are we going to just get along with each other and really LISTEN to each other?  It doesn't matter to me if someone is very religious or not. I care about them anyway.  If more people would truly think about what they hear and read, and apply the principles of critical thinking, and spend more time questioning and less time being right, there would be a lot less contrariness and more useful dialogue.

Of course, if THAT happened, this discussion would never have taken place.

I just have to ask robilar5500.

You just have to be a liberal who classifies himself as a "progressive" and a hard core Obama supporter.  Right?

Its called faith stupid.  It's that unexplainable belief that allowed the Wright Brothers to actually get into the airplane and take off, not the science that told them how to build it.

Send us a post from Hell when you get there.

Wow!  Nerd Herd!

It's hilarious that you bible thumpers take validation of stories written in a book (actually a series of books published over twenty or so decade after Jesus was allegedly killed and/or "rose fromthe dead"...a charcteristic shared by vampires, zombies, and a litany of other creatures)....pathetic

That some tales actually have a historic context isn't doubted by anybody. Trying to use it as validation for a fictional character's alleged existence is irresponsible at best....Show FACTS before spouting statements about the existence of a god or gods....it's encumbent upon you who makes claims like this to show proof...Faith isn't proof...if anything, it's an arrogant denial of reality. Which is probably why you rely so heavily on it....Since there never is and never will be proof of any deities, it is as i said before...pathetic.

If you need to believe in fairy tales to validate your existence, then by all means do so...just don't try to claim proof from wild conjecture. I can walk around telling people i spoke to a cow-headed god, but it doesn't make it true...i could even ostracize you for not believing what i tell you...of course, i can then fall back on the "you've gotta have faith" or "you explain how the universe exists" routine as well....btw, if yo know of somebody who can define an absolute beginning, let me know....likely our concept of beginnings and ends gets in the way of true objectivity (since people live and die, it's difficult for most people to grasp non-linear timelines...and so they cling to wild conjecture..............very sad, pitiful...but mostly just irresponsible (in no other walk of life or discussion would you ever be allowed to ignore the lack of fact to support your arguments, and i've always found it entertaining to watch "godders" or "believers" or "dupes" trek on forward regardless)

Well...even that great man of science, Albert Einstein, said, toward the end of his life, that

when all the scientific evidence is taken to its logical conclusion, "We'll be looking at the face

of God."  Real men of science keep their minds OPEN.  I love that the continued attempts to

prove science and religion at odds usually confirms the opposite.  

my question is was there any gold left in the mines?

Silly Christers,

Of course there is some truth in the bible.  Emphasis on the word 'some'. The ancient writers had to have some basis for their mythology.  This is an interesting finding, but you can't seriously use it to support silly assertions like the earth is 6,000 years old or that evolution did not (or does not, come to my lab and I'll prove that it does) occur.

At what point in todays society, does one in order to be scientific, have to believe that there is no God.  Ones faith does not change scientific facts.  To date, no one has found any facts to disprove anything that has occurred in the bible.  If anything, each new discovery seems to point to the fact that these events occurred.  I could care less if a person believes or not believes, but I find it very funny how many try to find fault with the bible or events believed to have happened during this period.  The best part about it, those that complain and try to discredit the most, I have found have never read the book from beginning to end. I am all for science and history.  For these studies improve life and remind us how simple and fragile life is.

Omnious, you seem to be very uninformed.  Your current(wrong) beliefs regarding our reason for being here and how we got here, will not be well recieved on judgment day. I feel sorry for you and your ingnorance(deception). I will keep you in my prayers.

Sanctus good advice!

Omnius, if there is so much evidence about evolution then why is it still a theory instead of a scientific law?

He will return. And he loves us enough to allow us to find clues of his 1st time on His Earth.

Once again, archeologists try to disprove the Bible as a historically accurate document and again find the truth.  God does exist and is our Creator.  Once you learn that Onmius, the more at peace you will be. :)

Omnious, it seems that you totally ignored new "scientific" evidence that the Hebrew writings are not simply some fairytale. The argument is not whether the Old & New Testaments are totally without flaw. They are, just as any modern documents are not without falliability (EVEN SCIENTIFIC DATA, that is later overturned by later findings! LOL).

Science continues to reveal to us that what many modern scholars once believed to be religious dream & intellectual rubbish, is actually valid history. "Scientifically" speaking archeology & paleontology are just as relevant as any other field :-)

Your vitriollic  anger is thinly veiled by your evolutionary rantings. Bring peace, by being at peace. Do some deep introspection and find out why you are so angry on a psychological level my friend. Bring peace, by being at peace.

Just more much ado about nothing as anything ancient will be falsely proclaimed to be biblical in nature.  Next they'll find a piece of wood from some old boat in Turkey and falsely proclaim it the Lost Ark.  Who cares about this ancient religious garbage anyway?  Oh yeah the clueless ones who dismiss the recent scientific findings of evolution, astronomy, physics and everything else that really matters in discovering the real truth of why and how we're here!

I think it's wierd that "biblical archeology" is somewhat biased against the Bible.  It seems that if you want to be taken seriously in that field, you have to believe that "you can't believe everything you read in the Bible."  Then you get this range of biblical archeologists that write books saying David never existed and Solomon was only a goat herder.  I read this book that said the Israelites were really displaced Caananites, and that the whole exodus from Egypt was just a metaphor for liberation from Caananite cities.  HUH?  And he based this on 14 shards of pottery.  Archeology is interesting, but the more I learn of it the less I can take it seriously.

Dear rdefazio,

The story of history is the story of the conflict between human beings and human institutions. It is when humans began to farm and establish permanent settlements, or cities, that they brought themselves into conflict with nomatic herdsmen and nomadic hunter-gatherers. The same was true 12,000 years ago as it was true in the wild west, when ranchers found themselves in conflict with free rangers. Settlers, or city folk, accumulate wealth - - - and power. They build walls, fortifications, castles. They decorate them and improve life for themselves with various inventions. As these urban societies become more complex, artisians flourish much more readily than they do in nomadic campsites. And yes, they tend to dominate the landscape around them. This is the story of the advance of civilization. Just as today, the closer one finds oneself to the centers of civilization (i.e. Manhattan, Paris, Hong Kong), the more expensive it is to live there, and that's the way it was in Solomon's time. While it can be argued that there is no lack of cultural or artistic complexity to nomadic and agrarian societies, unfortunately, they ultimately find it difficult to compete with the kind of wealth and power that grows out of cities as they advance in industry and invention. Ah, but we could all just return to the land - - - until some son of a so and so decides to build a house with a fence and screws it up for the rest of us!

Having done some work in the field of ancient epigraphy, I am always amazed at the cultural arrogance of people of our own time.  They assume that ancient cultures could not be complex unless they have had the opportunity to dominate a region.  Only then, they assume, can a society crawl out of living in the dirt to become something other than throwbacks to a hunter/gatherer society.  I think the presumption of near imbecility unless a gold artifact or uniquely decorated piece of pottery can be linked to a culture is a huge mistake in judgment with respect to the nature of human societies.  

In all likelihood, Solomon was wealthy, and that wealth likely came from mines as indicated in the Bible.  While the Bible may contain some assertions that would not fare favorably under the spotlight of Cartesian logic, some things are certainly worthy of acceptance as being true.  Consider that we have gleefully accepted the existence of a whole new kind of human based on a few bone fragments or that we have accepted the notion of a whole new specie based on a fossil that may or may not have been a whole new specie at all but rather a deformation of an existing one.  These fragments of bone cannot speak, they have no capacity to argue their case; it is left to people who are removed by thousands of years from the creatures whose skeletons once contained the fragments to decide what they might have looked like or whether they were "new."  

When a self-aware being of considerable intelligence records in a system of writing that is intelligible to the modern world that a royal contemporary had enormous wealth obtained from mining in a specific region of the earth, there is already reason to suspect that such a claim is not necessarily mere braggadocio but rather an account having the characteristics of historicity.

Bad breath Whittler?

Ho-hum