Newsweek - National News, World News, Health, Technology, Entertainment and more... | Newsweek.com
Full Post
Posted Wednesday, March 12, 2008 5:30 PM

Expertinent: The Political Psychology of Race and Gender

Andrew Romano

Expertinent is a regular Stumper column featuring interviews with experts on the news of the day.

Talk about good timing. A week ago, Cornell law student Gregory S. Parks emailed me a law review article that he had just coauthored with university professor Jeffrey Rachlinski. The subject? "Unconscious race and gender bias in the 2008 election." In addition to their legal studies, both Parks and Rachlinski (whose academic efforts have focused on the influence of human psychology on decision-making by courts, administrative agencies and regulated communities) boast Ph.Ds in psychology. On Monday, I decided to call them up for a chat. The next day, of course, race and gender consumed the national conversation (yet again) when Clinton supporter and former vice presidential candidate Geraldine Ferraro told a California newspaper that "if Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position." Revisiting my conversation with Parks and Rachlinski this morning, I realized that many of the questions we covered--who's battling the more difficult biases? is the 'victim pose' politically helpful? what should we expect in the general election?--are precisely the questions that everyone is asking in the wake of the Ferraro flap. Thus, I defer to the experts:

What inspired you to write this article? 
RACHLINSKI: There's a growing body of research among social psychologists that normal adults who explicitly embrace egalitarian beliefs--that everyone should be treated equally and that gender and race shouldn't affect their judgments of other people, especially job candidates--nevertheless harbor implicit associations that can hinder their judgment. Something like 80 to 90 percent of adult Americans harbor at least a mild negative implicit bias toward African-Americans, and a good 30 to 40 percent harbor very negative biases.

PARKS: The research on implicit attitudes or unconscious biases suggests that they operate in two different ways, depending on the categories of individuals: blacks or women. With regards to blacks, people tend to have an implicit animus, and it plays out in various forms of behavior. With regards to women, they tend to have these implicit stereotypes in regards to gender roles, particularly in regard to employment--like, who would best fit certain types of roles in the workplace.

RACHLINSKI: There's preliminary data to suggest that this affects ordinary job applicants, and that resumes of black Americans are treated differently than those of whites. It's been proven that credentials help white applicants a lot more than they help black applicants, for example. Because studies are showing that these implicit, unconscious biases affect job candidates, it occurred to us that the 2008 election is really an elaborate job interview. It's a perfect case study. You have two well-funded, very savvy, highly motivated individuals, both of whom stand to suffer from unconscious biases.

How are the campaigns dealing with these biases?
R: Clinton has an easier path in some ways. She faces a straightforward, content-filled implicit bias that women are not leaders. Psychologists often say that there are two kind of judgment. One's the automatic, unconscious system--the intuitive system. And the other is the explicit, slow, deductive, reason-based system. The unconscious biases operate on that first system. So what Clinton has to do--and has done very effectively--is always look like a leader, so when people think  of her, they think of her as such. She fights the bias directly, and at really no cost other than the work required to maintain that image. No one in the Democratic Party blames her for looking tough as nails all the time and constantly going on about policy.

How about Obama?
R: Obama has a tougher job. The biases against African Americans are just a raw animus in a lot of ways. What you see in the studies is that people associate black with negative imagery, just wholesale, without regard to specific content. Blacks are bad, whites are good. You see it over and over in the unconscious bias literature. So what does he have to fight? He has to fight against being black in a way. He has to have people look at him and associate him with the positive imagery that Americans tend to associate with whites. It's not surprising, then, that his campaign is about very amorphous goals like hope and aspiration. That's the message that can work, because he can't embrace black issues without activating unconscious biases in white voters. That's very difficult to begin with.

Advertisement

On the other hand, Obama risks raising specific concerns among his core supporters--notably, African-Americans--if he fights too hard against being black. There's a specific in-group favoritism among African-Americans--a favorable, explicit self-image that's stronger than what you see among whites. When a black leader seems to be running away from his image as a black person, that's viewed negatively. In order to keep his base, then, he can't deny that he's black. It's a thin line that he has to toe.

You said before that "credentials help white applicants a lot more than they help black applicants." Does that mean that Obama shouldn't recite specific accomplishments and resume points?
R: The data suggests that it doesn't help black job applicants, and that it wouldn't help him.  According to the research, adding resume credentials helps white applicants much more than black applicants. So if his campaign starts to be about what he's done, it won't help.

How do you know that unconscious bias is affecting voters?

R: It's tough to collect data in one election--psychologists like to have multiple, multiple experiments to support their results. But this is a case study. What we say in the paper that you see among white voters is a tendency to sort of flinch when voting for Barack Obama. That's how unconscious biases work. They're that first emotional, unconscious, affective, rapid system that we don't even always have conscious access to. People don't always know why they're doing what they're doing. In a vague sense, maybe--but it's very ill-defined. So it's at the last minute that you see white voters flinching.

How do you measure the flinch?

R: We tie it to the Bradley effect--the tendency for poll numbers to overstate support for a black candidate in a black vs. white election. What we picture is a white voter who sort of favors Obama but goes to the polls and just can't do it at the last minute. Then he's embarrassed about it and he lies to the exit pollsters. How can we tell this is going on? It's a little hard from the data we have. But there's a correlation between the tendency to see a Bradley effect in the 2008 primaries and the percentage of white voters in a given state. In largely black states, you tend to see the opposite--a fair number of African-Americans who show black preferences on implicit associations.

Where are you seeing the Bradley effect?
R: The states that showed the paradigmatic Bradley effect are New Hampshire, California, Massachusetts and Rhode Island. The states that showed the reverse effect are Virginia, South Carolina, Alabama and Georgia.

Let's talk about the future. Will this gender and race dynamic change in the general election if Clinton is the nominee?
R: It changes quite a bit. In the general election, you'll see more concern--if Clinton gets the nomination--with her not being a traditional homemaker. You'll see that explicit bias more among Republicans and Independents than you do among Democrats, because more Democratic women tend, relative to the general population, to be professionals.  They've encountered the same kind of stereotypes that she's facing. They're sympathetic when she tries to look tough and not show emotion. Come November, then, Clinton will be forced to appeal to a lot more voters who explicitly embrace the idea of women in the home--which means she may risk undoing her earlier work to fight the implicit bias that women aren't leaders. She'll be the one forced to walk that tightrope.

What about Obama?
R: He faces fewer white voters who like or care about the idea of a post-racial future. Liberal Democrats like the idea that someday race won't matter; Independents and Republicans, not as much. There's good data showing that Republicans harbor stronger negative implicit biases towards African-Americans than Democrats. So he's got to fight those biases a good deal more than he does among Democratic voters, and liberals are no longer enough. The other problem for Obama in the general election is that strong link between "black" and "foreign."

P: There was a study that came out a couple of years ago titled "American Equals White." And what it showed was that at the implicit level people tend to correlate whiteness with Americanness as opposed to blackness with Americanness. What's more, studies of the 2008 election have shown that when you prime individuals with images of the American flag--at a subliminal level, so you just flash is for a millisecond--it has a tendency to make white individuals show less liking toward Barack Obama. This harkens back to question of Obama not wearing the American flag pin and the accusations that he failed to put his hand over his heart during the singing of the national anthem. This stuff is tricky for him, especially considering that some opponents are questioning his patriotism. If images of Americanness make white Americans see Obama as less American at the implicit level--while at the explicit level rivals are questioning his patriotism--then he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

R: And that's more of a problem in the general election than in the primary because he'll be running against a war hero. Hillary Clinton looks nowhere near as "American," in a psychological sense, as John McCain. So the implicit biases that Obama has to fight are a lot harder. One thing that gets easier for him, though. Black voters worried very early on about whether Obama was electable--would whites really, truly support him?--and whether he was "black enough." I think winning a long primary obviously makes him electable. So he gets past that. As far as whether he's authentically black, it's a long primary season. Occasionally showing he's "black" and walking that tightrope seems to be doing the trick. So in the general election, perhaps he can focus more on counteracting implicit biases and not worry as much about proving his authenticity.

Is there anything to be gained by either campaign accusing their opponents of being sexist or racist? It seems to happen every day now. Does the 'victimhood pose' help in any way?
P: Obama, for one, cannot afford to address these things head on. If he gets up and says XYZ is racist and calls people on the carpet about race issues, it will only hurt him. The data supports this view. Studies suggest that when you press people on their gender-stereotypical biases, they kind of laugh it off. Because it's not such a hot issue. They're like, "Whatever. I'm not sexist." But if you press them on their racial biases, particularly in regards to blacks, one of two things happens.  If they're low on explicit racial prejudice, they become contrite, apologetic, they want to know what they can do to overcome it. But if they are high on explicit racial bias, they become angry and antagonistic. When you accuse whites who harbor certain levels of racism of racist behavior, it actually makes them angry towards you. And that's why Obama can't afford to push back. He has to acknowledge and affirm that he's black so as not to alienate black voters, but he can't do it in such a way as to raise anxieties among white voters.

Is the calculus different with Clinton? Her campaign has been pretty explicit about pushing back in a way that's centered on her gender, as in the incident with David Shuster at MSNBC.
R: Of course, there are more women then there are black voters, right? It doesn't make blacks angry to point out that blacks are disadvantaged by bias. It makes whites angry. The same is true of gender. In the Democratic primaries she's dealing with a more sympathetic audience among women and to some degree among men. I don't think you'll see that in the general election at all, because she'll be fighting the implicit associations between women and nurturing domestic roles rather than leadership roles. At that point, any effort to play the gender card, if you will, is going to alienate some of the voters she needs--the voters who think it's a good idea  for women to stay home.

There's a real split here about implicit associations and explicit ones. The efforts to articulate concerns about racism in the way you described are explicit efforts. Look at yourself, think about it, examine the data--that's a deliberative process meant to get people to reason through the problem and confront themselves in a different way. But you can't fight implicit biases with reasoned argument. It's not how they work. They work on an intuitive, affective, emotional level. Pushing back just makes people angry. You don't see that working very well in the research. And it wouldn't work in this campaign either. Instead, the candidates should combat implicit bias implicitly--Hillary has to look like a leader all the time; Obama looks inspirational. You fight fire with fire.

Do you expect the race- and gender-baiting to get worse in the general election?
P: Even though the RNC has indicated that they are kind of scared about how to attack Hillary Clinton without charges of sexism being leveled against them, and Barack Obama without allegations of racism, you'll still have ancillary individuals and groups who will make these attacks--that, for example, Obama used drugs at one time. There's ample evidence that, at least with regards to juries, they tend to view defendants more harshly when they've committed a crime that seems racially congruent, like a black person committing a more blue-collar crime--robbery, drug dealing and so forth. If they play that up, it could be problematic for him. If they question his patriotism, again, that could be problematic for him, because it raises these implicit biases about whether he's American enough. Republicans will probably play on these things, and perhaps his relationship with his pastor Jeremiah Wright, who openly espouses a black value system, to raise implicit biases in the electorate. And I think that poses some significant challenges for Obama.

What about the "Hussein" issue? McCain himself has already said that his allies should not use Obama's middle name as a political jab.
R: But it doesn't cost McCain anything to disassociate himself from it. The unconscious bias works automatically, quickly and deductively. So you hear the name three times and the context afterwards where McCain carefully explains that this is not something he endorsed is sort of irrelevant. To the extent that saying Hussein over and over again is at all effective on voters, McCain disassociating himself doesn't undo that effect. Because it's that first system, that affective, intuitive one, that's at play.

P: It's the benefit without the burden. He can distance himself after the fact. The RNC has said that they're not going to officially make attacks on race and gender, but you can have other groups raise these concerns and it works to McCain's advantage. The other question here is how Obama and Clinton may tear themselves apart heading into the convention and the general election by raising all these questions about each other. They're provoking these implicit biases among the general electorate as we speak--and the Republican Party may not have to do much next fall.

You must be a registered user to comment.  Click here to register.  Already a user?  Click here to login.

Member Comments

Posted By: CANDIDATE_REPUBLICAN (May 15, 2008 at 12:51 PM)

reported by repackaging comments of gop leader and candidate & hopeful to be nominee of gop at the nominating convention  of GOP next for finally selecting gop candidate for nov 4 , 2008 scheduled election if be held without any order of injunctive reiefs to postpone u s pres. election 2008 until court actions in 69+ usdc jurisdictions filed by rev dr kamal roy  alleging sky high, ocean_deep. and internet speedy  corruptions in campaign of u s presidential campaign commenced in 2007, as such a major party gop candidate , the rev dr kamal karna karuna roy, m b a (M S dgree in management , 1974, id and socia security no 578 80 4399), ph. d (management), d . d. (doctorate in divinity). ll . B (law) from foreign accredited school; adv cert of accomplishment in public admn, from U S D A Graduate school, washington dc, 1972, id 578804399).

dr kamal karna k roy a candidate of gop for presidentialrace 2008 who thought  the superdelegates may gracefully nominate him to be u s gop mr clean as the presidential prospect, found alarming news that allegedly felony corrupt gop politician  , mr john McCain who secured major primary votes for primary election in states of usa , was engagaged in manipulating super delegates to supprt him for nomination of gop for u s presidential race 2008. Now dr roy moved to the us district court for wewstern district ofwashington at seattle office, 700 stewart street, seattle washington, with prayer to void all primary results of state primaries. ground was cited that by definitions superdelegates and primary pledged delegates are different but each group must have powers to say in the nominating convention. But dr roy who was treated in news media alike an oriental style poor widow in family of joint family, i e without any power tosay in the family, dr roy was treated by news media and news conglomerates in billions $ business for prfit making but without having any regards to nus constitution for equites in u s constitutional mandated u s presidential electoral competition 2008. The news media abused u s anti trust laws which prohibited any industrial produce like news items to curb competitions in usa. hbut news media abused news items topromote certain candidates of their choice to curb electoralprospect of dr roy in 2007- 2008.


Posted By: CANDIDATE_REPUBLICAN (April 29, 2008 at 8:52 PM)

Fareed Zakaria

Editor of Newsweek International, columnist

PostGlobal co-moderator Fareed Zakaria is editor of Newsweek International, overseeing all Newsweek's editions abroad. He writes a regular column for Newsweek, which also appears in Newsweek International and often The Washington Post. He is a member of the roundtable of ABC News' "This Week with George Stephanapoulos" as well as an analyst for ABC News. And he is the host of a new weekly PBS show, "Foreign Exchange" which focuses on international affairs. His most recent book, "The Future of Freedom," was published in the spring of 2003 and was a New York Times bestseller and is being translated into eighteen languages. He is also the author of "From Wealth to Power: The Unusual Origins of America's World Role" (Princeton University Press), and co-editor of "The American Encounter: The United States and the Making of the Modern World" (Basic Books). Close. Fareed Zakaria

Editor of Newsweek International, columnist

PostGlobal co-moderator Fareed Zakaria is editor of Newsweek International, overseeing all Newsweek's editions abroad. He writes a regular column for Newsweek, which also appears in Newsweek International and often The Washington Post. more »

Main Page | Fareed Zakaria Archives | PostGlobal Archives

McCain's Radical Foreign Policy

Amid the din of the dueling Democrats, people seem to have forgotten about that other guy in the presidential race-you know, John McCain. McCain is said to be benefiting from this politically because his rivals are tearing each other apart. In fact, few people are paying much attention to what the Republican nominee is saying, or subjecting it to any serious scrutiny.

On March 26, McCain gave a speech on foreign policy in Los Angeles that was billed as his most comprehensive statement on the subject. It contained within it the most radical idea put forward by a major candidate for the presidency in 25 years. Yet almost no one noticed.

In his speech McCain proposed that the United States expel Russia from the G8, the group of advanced industrial countries. Moscow was included in this body in the 1990s to recognize and reward it for peacefully ending the cold war on Western terms, dismantling the Soviet empire and withdrawing from large chunks of the old Russian Empire as well. McCain also proposed that the United States should expand the G8 by taking in India and Brazil-but pointedly excluded China from the councils of power.

We have spent months debating Barack Obama's suggestion that he might, under some circumstances, meet with Iranians and Venezuelans. It is a sign of what is wrong with the foreign-policy debate that this idea is treated as a revolution in U.S. policy while McCain's proposal has barely registered. What McCain has announced is momentous-that the United States should adopt a policy of active exclusion and hostility toward two major global powers. It would reverse a decades-old bipartisan American policy of integrating these two countries into the global order, a policy that began under Richard Nixon (with Beijing) and continued under Ronald Reagan (with Moscow). It is a policy that would alienate many countries in Europe and Asia who would see it as an attempt by Washington to begin a new cold war.

I write this with sadness because I greatly admire John McCain, a man of intelligence, honor and enormous personal and political courage. I also agree with much of what else he said in that speech in Los Angeles. But in recent years, McCain has turned into a foreign-policy schizophrenic, alternating between neoconservative posturing and realist common sense. His speech reads like it was written by two very different people, each one given an allotment of a few paragraphs on every topic.

The neoconservative vision within the speech is essentially an affirmation of ideology. Not only does it declare war on Russia and China, it places the United States in active opposition to all nondemocracies. It proposes a League of Democracies, which would presumably play the role that the United Nations now does, except that all nondemocracies would be cast outside the pale. The approach lacks any strategic framework. What would be the gain from so alienating two great powers? How would the League of Democracies fight terrorism while excluding countries like Jordan, Morocco, Egypt and Singapore? What would be the gain to the average American to lessen our influence with Saudi Arabia, the central banker of oil, in a world in which we are still crucially dependent on that energy source?

The single most important security problem that the United States faces is securing loose nuclear materials. A terrorist group can pose an existential threat to the global order only by getting hold of such material. We also have an interest in stopping proliferation, particularly by rogue regimes like Iran and North Korea. To achieve both of these core objectives-which would make American safe and the world more secure-we need Russian cooperation. How fulsome is that likely to be if we gratuitously initiate hostilities with Moscow? Dissing dictators might make for a stirring speech, but ordinary Americans will have to live with the complications after the applause dies down.

To reorder the G8 without China would be particularly bizarre. The G8 was created to help coordinate problems of the emerging global economy. Every day these problems multiply-involving trade, pollution, currencies-and are in greater need of coordination. To have a body that attempts to do this but excludes the world's second largest economy is to condemn it to failure and irrelevance. International groups are not cheerleading bodies but exist to help solve pressing global crises. Excluding countries won't make the problems go away.

McCain appears to think that he can magically unite the two main strands in the Republican foreign-policy establishment. But he can't. This is not about personalities but about two philosophically divergent views of international affairs. Put together, they will produce infighting and incoherence. We have seen this movie before. We have watched an American president unable to choose between his ideologically driven vice president and his pragmatic secretary of State-and the result was the catastrophe of George W. Bush's first term. Twenty-five years earlier, we watched another president who believed that he could encompass the entire spectrum of foreign policy. He, too, gave speeches that were drafted by advisers with divergent world views: in that case, Cyrus Vance and Zbigniew Brzezinski. It led to the paralyzing internal battles of the Carter years. Does John McCain want to try this experiment one more time?

Posted by Fareed Zakaria on April 28, 2008 7:13 AM

Comments (50)

doctor t:

Hi-

The reason nobody payed this proposal any attention is that it is so nuts. A simple sop to the anti-UN group, he appears that he would like to substitute the world with a fantasy world (like fantasy baseball) of "people like us". In the general election, I hope the other major and a bunch of the minor ones will put this back on the main burner to characterize McKie as the Lyndon Larouche of the present election.

Posted April 29, 2008 3:23 PM

Posted on April 29, 2008 15:23

HUSSEIN ELSHIBINI :

There is no doubt that the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan against the will of its people led to the demotivation of the military , exhaustion of the economy and ultimately collapse of the Soviet Empire.

This should be compared with the present American occupation ( officially called "liberation") of Iraq. After five years the actual results are as follows : a divided pro-American government whose authority does not extend beyond the so-called "Green Zone" , several thousands of American troops have lost their life , tens of thousands are disabled for life , and hundreds of thousands are presently suffering from post traumatic stress disorder. The cost of this war is having a clear impact on the American economy. I hope that the next American Administration would be responsible enough to admit that there is no country, whatever its might, with inexhaustible resources. Such a policy would be of great benefit to the US and the world as well.

Posted April 29, 2008 1:53 PM

Posted on April 29, 2008 13:53

SA:

This presidential campaign cycle has led me to lose all respect for the so-called mainstream media. It's shocking that such a proposal from McCain is ignored by the MSM. Their priorities are so skewed, it's beyond comprehension. Thank you very much for pointing out McCain's statement to us.

What happened to the McCain of 2000? This 2008 version bears no likeness I can detect.

Posted April 29, 2008 1:38 PM

Posted on April 29, 2008 13:38

Bob:

If McCain's point is that the world's democracies need a forum, any forum, to meet, discuss, and air their views, where their expression of views will not be distorted by the participation of dictatorships like Russian and China, then I strongly agree.

Perhaps NATO could be reenvisioned to become a global organization and fill this role.

Russian and China did not invite the US to participate in their Shanghai Council, or whatever it's called.

Fareed, you're grasping at straws.

Posted April 29, 2008 1:35 PM

Posted on April 29, 2008 13:35

Neocon Empire:

Why can't these politicians understand that the best way to promote democracy is to live well rather than going around invading other countries while burying our country under mountains of debts? The Soviet empire collapsed because we showed the Russians that we were far wealthier and happier under a capitalistic democracy than they could ever be under a Communist dictatorship. Now, after 8 years of neocon rule, we are broke trying to impose our values on the world. The Chinese are laughing at us.

Posted April 29, 2008 1:34 PM

Posted on April 29, 2008 13:34

counfounded by our leaders:

DAE,You left out John F (got us into Vietnam, and shagged everyone but his wife) Kennedy, Jimmy (blundering through foriegn policy, and attacked Iran and failed) Carter, and William Jefferson (bombing childrens pharmaceutical plants, shagged his secretary, and several of his aides all committed "suicide") Clinton.

 You're right.  When you look at these Presidents, it just makes you shudder at the depths of ineptitude, unfaithfulness, and criminal behavior.  

Posted April 29, 2008 12:36 PM

Posted on April 29, 2008 12:36

MGLoraine:

One can only conclude that main-stream media is still doing the bidding of the Cheney White House. McCain goes around spouting absurd, bombastic nonsense like this every day, but it gets buried because the corporate sponsors know he sounds like a half-wit. Meanwhile, we are regaled with hour after hour of sound-bites and repetitive superficial analyses (i.e., speculation & prognostication by the usual pundits) regarding Rev. Wright and portions of comments he has made or is rumored to have made.

Rev. Wright is a man with opinions and a right to state them publicly. But he's not running for President, and he doesn't speak for or represent the candidate he is associated with. So who keeps trying to publicize Rev. Wright's every move while manipulating the coverage to conjure up some phony controversy? Who decides to plaster Rev. Wright's picture alongside dire predictions for Obama on the front page, while hiding items illustrating McCain's dementia / senility well in the back pages?

Cheney and Rove (or their wretched minions) are merely doing what they've been doing since 2000 - manipulating the media with influence peddling and intimidation in order to secure a third term for BushCo. And the media houses play right along, anything for a quick buck, a 'scoop', or an 'exclusive' interview.

Posted April 29, 2008 12:29 PM

Posted on April 29, 2008 12:29

Zathras:

A full defense of Sen. McCain's approach to foreign and national security affairs will have to come from someone other than me.

McCain has a long record in this area, one that reflects better than average judgment overall, but at the moment he appears to be a candidate in the general election who is still unsure that he really has the GOP nomination. This is reflected in a mix of positions intended to appeal to most voters (and that are generally consistent with those McCain held before the campaign began) and positions clearly adopted to appeal to the hard core of the Republican Party, the people who still admire President Bush. In an actual McCain administration, these two orientations could not coexist peacefully.

Having said that, I would point out that what we now call the G8 originated as a periodic gathering of the leaders of the major democracies. The Nixon administration thought it wise for the heads of governments sharing similar values to meet without being encumbered by hordes of staff and the restrictions of institutional protocol -- or by the participation of Communist dictatorships. This was not a radical approach, or one motivated by some new hostility to non-Western countries, but was instead an initiative to enable the democracies to increase their options to respond to challenges outside the security field in a timely way.

The G8 has grown beyond that vision; in many ways it has grown into precisely the kind of institution that Nixon's administration sought to bypass. In McCain's place I would be calling for expanding the G8 but convening it less frequently, say, every other year. In the years it did not meet I would attempt to resurrect the kind of informal council Nixon sought to create; its purpose would be less expansive than what McCain proposes, but its membership would be similar.

The fact is that China remains a country in which power is monopolized by the state, and Russia persists in seeking to undermine the independence of neighboring countries freed from the oppression of the old Soviet empire. No amount of American goodwill can paper over the serious differences between the governments of these countries and ours. Because once admitted to a large forum like the G8 their withdrawal for any reason would be regarded as a major diplomatic failure, the temptation to gloss over objectionable policy moves by either Russia or China -- whether Russian efforts to dismember Georgia or Chinese manipulation of the yuan -- would be considerable. It is therefore undesirable for an expanded G8, whether one thinks of this as "the councils of power" or not, to be the only forum in which the major powers interact with one another.

Periodic meetings among heads of government, representing major countries sharing democratic values, are a necessary and valuable thing, provided both the purposes and the limitations of such a forum are clearly understood beforehand. McCain's "League of Democracies," as he has described it, is grandiose and impractical, but contains at its core the important recognition that the free countries of the world can and should rest common action on their common values, as they have so often in the past.

Posted April 29, 2008 11:31 AM

Posted on April 29, 2008 11:31

Amir:

Just wanted to say, keep up the good work, Fareed. One of the few major media people out there who actually concentrate on important things.

Posted April 29, 2008 11:31 AM

Posted on April 29, 2008 11:31

lila:

Anyone who saw Bush's morning press conference

and who stil considers McCain, his foreign

policy clone , a realistic candidate---

Speak up. Show yourself to be an idiot.

The news conference was a horrid mix blundering

and outright lies. It was freaky.

Posted April 29, 2008 11:11 AM

Posted on April 29, 2008 11:11

Jim Hickland:

McCain's foreign policy approach cements a completely overlooked facet of his campaign for President. What people and our vaunted press fail to think about is that we're not really going to vote for a man, we are really voting thousands of bureaucrats who will rush in to fill the policy and administrative posts. If enough people vote for McCain, then he'll appoint/nominate the same corrupt incompetant crowd that's destroyed this nation over the past 8 years. Fortunately, McCain is a senile old coot that can barely string enough sentences together to form an intelligent paragraph. Eventually people will turn on him

Jim Hickland

Posted April 29, 2008 10:34 AM

Posted on April 29, 2008 10:34

Speranza:

Here's the thing. Statements like McCain's - and the absence of reaction to its absurdity - prove one thing for sure: America is now frightened of the world. If these were the words of a school boy about someone in the playground we'd have to ask, "What is he frightened of?" The answer is clear in this case. America is frightened that it has run out of juice and that it no longer has the character or wit to be able to pull itself out of the mire. It's going to be a long fall.

Posted April 29, 2008 10:32 AM

Posted on April 29, 2008 10:32

Robert Myers:

US politicians, indeed US citizens need to embrace a foreign policy that isn’t based on the presumption of always having foreign enemies. And, we need to significantly cut the military budget as part of this.

Posted April 29, 2008 8:27 AM

Posted on April 29, 2008 08:27

DAE:

As regards foreign policy, I'm of the age where I thought that no president could be worse than LB "how many kids have you killed today" J, then came Richard "Cambodian Incursion" Nixon, who could be worse than that? How about Ronald "Iran-Contra" Reagan, and the worst of the lot now reigning. Well it seems they all may be trumped by John 'know-nothing" McCain.

Posted April 29, 2008 8:27 AM

Posted on April 29, 2008 08:27

_kt_:

Could someone explain what the G8 does that is unique? We've got the WTO for trade and the UN for diplomacy. Is it just a rich guys club where we talk about how to arrange things for the benefit of the rich guys? If so, isn't that kind of obnoxious? I don't think I know enough about the G8 to evaluate McCain's proposal.

Posted April 29, 2008 6:33 AM

Posted on April 29, 2008 06:33

Ali:

Some one should tell Mr. McCain that the Cold War is over and there were no winners....just two losers, one lost early and went bankrupt, the second one is following the same path.... with about a 15 year delayed, slow-motion structure.

However, polls tell us that the same majority that re-elected George Bush now support Mr. McCain and the difference with the Democrats is very small.....

Pretty bad, or down-right dangerous?

Posted April 29, 2008 3:19 AM

Posted on April 29, 2008 03:19

Robert F. Zimmerman:

I suggest that Fareed come to Ukraine and Georgia to experience the first stirrings of Putin's efforts to keep these countries weak even if he cannot bring them back into his emerging Czarist Russia.

Posted April 29, 2008 1:53 AM

Posted on April 29, 2008 01:53

Robert F. Zimmerman:

I suggest that Fareed come to Ukraine and Georgia to experience the first stirrings of Putin's efforts to keep these countries weak even if he cannot bring them back into his emerging Czarist Russia.

Posted April 29, 2008 1:53 AM

Posted on April 29, 2008 01:53

Mark W.:

It's not radical to me, Nixon bombed Cambodia, so why would not Senator McCain suggest, "Bomb bomb Iran", talking about insensitivity to the effects of rhetoric on oil prices.

At a Highschool, McCain was challenged by a young person. His first impulse was to threaten that young person with "The Draft". May have been funny to him but people are watching.

Henry K. is a Consultant now. I wonder if he will become a revisionist historian as a paid Consultant ? Not too long about Henry hoped Arabs would be willing to form a cohesiveness relieving western boots on arab soils I would imagine. McCain said, "I won't go it alone", who knows what he would do.

Interesting thing is that Vietnam can be compared to regional limited incursions if one accepts the fact that North Vietnamese, Chinese, Laotians and Cambodians became active partners against our treaty obligations and strategic objectives, cough-cough.

Apparent to most of us looking at the planning stages of current and future detente' that everything is on hold until Elvis leaves the building for good.

Posted April 29, 2008 12:30 AM

Posted on April 29, 2008 00:30

Neocon Empire:

John McCain has always been a hawk on foreign policies. Many of his prior records demonstrated it over and over again. I agree with the main point of the article, but have to disagree on the assertion that neocons are ideologically motivated. They are not. Democracy is not what neoconservatism is about. Neocons are hostile to the democratically elected government of Palestine. They are more than happy to protect autocratic regimes like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

What neocons are trying to do is not spreading democracy, even though that may be what they say as a cover. I am going to be the kid that yell "the emperor has no clothes" since nobody else wants to say it. What the neocons aim to do is to cement a permanant world order in which the US is the center, with western Europe and its Anglo-Saxon civilization as the core of a vast empire that stretches all over the globe. Each country in the world has its predestined role.

Nations like the UK and Germany are the most trusted allies because they are afterall Anglo-Saxon. The French and Italians are part of the traditional western Judaic-Christian civilization and therefore still part of the core neocon empire. Then you have countries like Japan, which represent the less trustworthy members that play the role of agents around the world.

All great empires must have outsiders and opponents. Russia and China are naturally targets of the neocon empire. Like Japan, they are from completely different civilizations. Unlike Japan, they are not willing to submit to the "natural" order of the world of neoconservatism. What makes these two countries stand out from the rest is that they are powerful enough to threaten this order.

You can certainly explain a lot about the neocons by this vision of theirs.

Posted April 28, 2008 9:52 PM

Posted on April 28, 2008 21:52

Martin Edwin Andersen:

There is so much that is admirable about Sen. McCain, but setting up an advisors' food fight while what would be an increasingly out-of-touch president presides does not seem a wise bet to me.

The neo-cons are master apparatchiks and would, once the food starts flying, likely come out on top.

The combination of Wilsonian rhetoric and gunboat tactics may sound good, but the world is too complex a place, and we will likely end up being even more isolated.

Posted April 28, 2008 8:42 PM

Posted on April 28, 2008 20:42

Martin Edwin Andersen:

There is so much that is admirable about Sen. McCain, but setting up an advisors' food fight while what would be an increasingly out-of-touch president presides does not seem a wise bet to me.

The neo-cons are master apparatchiks and would, once the food starts flying, likely come out on top.

The combination of Wilsonian rhetoric and gunboat tactics may sound good, but the world is too complex a place, and we will likely end up being even more isolated.

Posted April 28, 2008 8:39 PM

Posted on April 28, 2008 20:39

A sad citizen:

Once again, an extremely well written & insightful article from Fareed Zakaria. Co-existence & economic interdependence is the key to world peace & unity. Nothing would ever be achieved by excluding 2 major powers: Russia & China from G8.& Americans think that McCain is electable!! & is the US a REAL democracy??? Wake up to reality, people! We are a nation that loves to preach democratic ideals to the world when our own house is in disorder: look at Katrina, our support of dictatorial regimes ALL OVER the world, & gross disparity of wealth in this nation!

Posted April 28, 2008 7:58 PM

Posted on April 28, 2008 19:58

Betty Hamilton:

This is a fabulous article, as always. Thanks for important insights and news.

I agree, McCain is confused or out to lunch. And I agree that the press is chasing pigs in a poke. Can you see the glee with which a Democrat will challenge McCain's embrace of preemptive war? No wonder the Democrats are fighting so hard for the nomination!!!

If the current world institutions do not function effectively, it is a problem with the attitudes and behaviors of the member states. Changing the sturctures will not change these attitudes. We need to get it right with the existing, though perhaps modified, structures already in place.

After all is said and done, McCain will not be able to construct new world institutions, because he is not a great coalition builder. Just like W.

If we want change, it begins with getting the external money out of governance.

Posted April 28, 2008 6:39 PM

Posted on April 28, 2008 18:39

Ken:

Yes, McCain's comments were alarming, if not scary! Instead of ignoring or irritating Russia with stupid missile defense shields at a cost of millions, we need to establish a positive relationship. Include India and Brazil, OK; ignore China, McCain you must be kidding! What I really fear, which appears to be increasngly possible, is that the Democrats are going to seize "Defeat" from the jaws of "Victory" in 2008 and McCain when President will try to resolve the strategic tragedy of Iraq by attacking Iran! Then, stand by!

Posted April 28, 2008 5:48 PM

Posted on April 28, 2008 17:48

Rich:

Sorry, members of the press are all busy checking lapel flags and don't have time for this...

Posted April 28, 2008 4:32 PM

Posted on April 28, 2008 16:32

bala srini:

is it a sign of the future, that american senatorial candidates in the upcoming presidential election exhibit lack of vision and mission, therby confirming to the world atlarge the apathy and beginnings of decay in the senate in particular and the american politics in general.we are getting so immersed in the murky quagmirish quicksands of middle-east that we are in a self induced and self imposed and self destructive path to second-class status.we are fast approaching the third-world status in major parameters of HEALTH,&EDUCATION & HUMAN VALUES.unless there is a grass route development in promoting awareness in these important matters of fundamentals i am afraid all these talks of foreign policy might be like spitting in the wind.the apathy and general malaise got to go and the country needs to be awakened;the question is who will;i know one who won't;HILLARY FOR SURE.

Posted April 28, 2008 3:44 PM

Posted on April 28, 2008 15:44

nidhu geronimo , the rev dr:

Your Open QuestionShow me another »

Kamal karna roy , script of new testaments of living by human_animals of current time:?

for comment pl visit web ' kamal karna roy "

Posted April 28, 2008 3:25 PM

Posted on April 28, 2008 15:25

nidhu geronimo , the rev dr:

Your Open QuestionShow me another »

Kamal karna roy , script of new testaments of living by human_animals of current time:?

for comment pl visit web ' kamal karna roy "

Posted April 28, 2008 3:25 PM

Posted on April 28, 2008 15:25

nidhu geronimo , the rev dr:

Your Open QuestionShow me another »

Kamal karna roy , script of new testaments of living by human_animals of current time:?

for comment pl visit web ' kamal karna roy "

Posted April 28, 2008 3:25 PM


Posted By: CANDIDATE_REPUBLICAN (April 29, 2008 at 8:52 PM)

Fareed Zakaria

Editor of Newsweek International, columnist

PostGlobal co-moderator Fareed Zakaria is editor of Newsweek International, overseeing all Newsweek's editions abroad. He writes a regular column for Newsweek, which also appears in Newsweek International and often The Washington Post. He is a member of the roundtable of ABC News' "This Week with George Stephanapoulos" as well as an analyst for ABC News. And he is the host of a new weekly PBS show, "Foreign Exchange" which focuses on international affairs. His most recent book, "The Future of Freedom," was published in the spring of 2003 and was a New York Times bestseller and is being translated into eighteen languages. He is also the author of "From Wealth to Power: The Unusual Origins of America's World Role" (Princeton University Press), and co-editor of "The American Encounter: The United States and the Making of the Modern World" (Basic Books). Close. Fareed Zakaria

Editor of Newsweek International, columnist

PostGlobal co-moderator Fareed Zakaria is editor of Newsweek International, overseeing all Newsweek's editions abroad. He writes a regular column for Newsweek, which also appears in Newsweek International and often The Washington Post. more »

Main Page | Fareed Zakaria Archives | PostGlobal Archives

McCain's Radical Foreign Policy

Amid the din of the dueling Democrats, people seem to have forgotten about that other guy in the presidential race-you know, John McCain. McCain is said to be benefiting from this politically because his rivals are tearing each other apart. In fact, few people are paying much attention to what the Republican nominee is saying, or subjecting it to any serious scrutiny.

On March 26, McCain gave a speech on foreign policy in Los Angeles that was billed as his most comprehensive statement on the subject. It contained within it the most radical idea put forward by a major candidate for the presidency in 25 years. Yet almost no one noticed.

In his speech McCain proposed that the United States expel Russia from the G8, the group of advanced industrial countries. Moscow was included in this body in the 1990s to recognize and reward it for peacefully ending the cold war on Western terms, dismantling the Soviet empire and withdrawing from large chunks of the old Russian Empire as well. McCain also proposed that the United States should expand the G8 by taking in India and Brazil-but pointedly excluded China from the councils of power.

We have spent months debating Barack Obama's suggestion that he might, under some circumstances, meet with Iranians and Venezuelans. It is a sign of what is wrong with the foreign-policy debate that this idea is treated as a revolution in U.S. policy while McCain's proposal has barely registered. What McCain has announced is momentous-that the United States should adopt a policy of active exclusion and hostility toward two major global powers. It would reverse a decades-old bipartisan American policy of integrating these two countries into the global order, a policy that began under Richard Nixon (with Beijing) and continued under Ronald Reagan (with Moscow). It is a policy that would alienate many countries in Europe and Asia who would see it as an attempt by Washington to begin a new cold war.

I write this with sadness because I greatly admire John McCain, a man of intelligence, honor and enormous personal and political courage. I also agree with much of what else he said in that speech in Los Angeles. But in recent years, McCain has turned into a foreign-policy schizophrenic, alternating between neoconservative posturing and realist common sense. His speech reads like it was written by two very different people, each one given an allotment of a few paragraphs on every topic.

The neoconservative vision within the speech is essentially an affirmation of ideology. Not only does it declare war on Russia and China, it places the United States in active opposition to all nondemocracies. It proposes a League of Democracies, which would presumably play the role that the United Nations now does, except that all nondemocracies would be cast outside the pale. The approach lacks any strategic framework. What would be the gain from so alienating two great powers? How would the League of Democracies fight terrorism while excluding countries like Jordan, Morocco, Egypt and Singapore? What would be the gain to the average American to lessen our influence with Saudi Arabia, the central banker of oil, in a world in which we are still crucially dependent on that energy source?

The single most important security problem that the United States faces is securing loose nuclear materials. A terrorist group can pose an existential threat to the global order only by getting hold of such material. We also have an interest in stopping proliferation, particularly by rogue regimes like Iran and North Korea. To achieve both of these core objectives-which would make American safe and the world more secure-we need Russian cooperation. How fulsome is that likely to be if we gratuitously initiate hostilities with Moscow? Dissing dictators might make for a stirring speech, but ordinary Americans will have to live with the complications after the applause dies down.

To reorder the G8 without China would be particularly bizarre. The G8 was created to help coordinate problems of the emerging global economy. Every day these problems multiply-involving trade, pollution, currencies-and are in greater need of coordination. To have a body that attempts to do this but excludes the world's second largest economy is to condemn it to failure and irrelevance. International groups are not cheerleading bodies but exist to help solve pressing global crises. Excluding countries won't make the problems go away.

McCain appears to think that he can magically unite the two main strands in the Republican foreign-policy establishment. But he can't. This is not about personalities but about two philosophically divergent views of international affairs. Put together, they will produce infighting and incoherence. We have seen this movie before. We have watched an American president unable to choose between his ideologically driven vice president and his pragmatic secretary of State-and the result was the catastrophe of George W. Bush's first term. Twenty-five years earlier, we watched another president who believed that he could encompass the entire spectrum of foreign policy. He, too, gave speeches that were drafted by advisers with divergent world views: in that case, Cyrus Vance and Zbigniew Brzezinski. It led to the paralyzing internal battles of the Carter years. Does John McCain want to try this experiment one more time?

Posted by Fareed Zakaria on April 28, 2008 7:13 AM

Comments (50)

doctor t:

Hi-

The reason nobody payed this proposal any attention is that it is so nuts. A simple sop to the anti-UN group, he appears that he would like to substitute the world with a fantasy world (like fantasy baseball) of "people like us". In the general election, I hope the other major and a bunch of the minor ones will put this back on the main burner to characterize McKie as the Lyndon Larouche of the present election.

Posted April 29, 2008 3:23 PM

Posted on April 29, 2008 15:23

HUSSEIN ELSHIBINI :

There is no doubt that the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan against the will of its people led to the demotivation of the military , exhaustion of the economy and ultimately collapse of the Soviet Empire.

This should be compared with the present American occupation ( officially called "liberation") of Iraq. After five years the actual results are as follows : a divided pro-American government whose authority does not extend beyond the so-called "Green Zone" , several thousands of American troops have lost their life , tens of thousands are disabled for life , and hundreds of thousands are presently suffering from post traumatic stress disorder. The cost of this war is having a clear impact on the American economy. I hope that the next American Administration would be responsible enough to admit that there is no country, whatever its might, with inexhaustible resources. Such a policy would be of great benefit to the US and the world as well.

Posted April 29, 2008 1:53 PM

Posted on April 29, 2008 13:53

SA:

This presidential campaign cycle has led me to lose all respect for the so-called mainstream media. It's shocking that such a proposal from McCain is ignored by the MSM. Their priorities are so skewed, it's beyond comprehension. Thank you very much for pointing out McCain's statement to us.

What happened to the McCain of 2000? This 2008 version bears no likeness I can detect.

Posted April 29, 2008 1:38 PM

Posted on April 29, 2008 13:38

Bob:

If McCain's point is that the world's democracies need a forum, any forum, to meet, discuss, and air their views, where their expression of views will not be distorted by the participation of dictatorships like Russian and China, then I strongly agree.

Perhaps NATO could be reenvisioned to become a global organization and fill this role.

Russian and China did not invite the US to participate in their Shanghai Council, or whatever it's called.

Fareed, you're grasping at straws.

Posted April 29, 2008 1:35 PM

Posted on April 29, 2008 13:35

Neocon Empire:

Why can't these politicians understand that the best way to promote democracy is to live well rather than going around invading other countries while burying our country under mountains of debts? The Soviet empire collapsed because we showed the Russians that we were far wealthier and happier under a capitalistic democracy than they could ever be under a Communist dictatorship. Now, after 8 years of neocon rule, we are broke trying to impose our values on the world. The Chinese are laughing at us.

Posted April 29, 2008 1:34 PM

Posted on April 29, 2008 13:34

counfounded by our leaders:

DAE,You left out John F (got us into Vietnam, and shagged everyone but his wife) Kennedy, Jimmy (blundering through foriegn policy, and attacked Iran and failed) Carter, and William Jefferson (bombing childrens pharmaceutical plants, shagged his secretary, and several of his aides all committed "suicide") Clinton.

 You're right.  When you look at these Presidents, it just makes you shudder at the depths of ineptitude, unfaithfulness, and criminal behavior.  

Posted April 29, 2008 12:36 PM

Posted on April 29, 2008 12:36

MGLoraine:

One can only conclude that main-stream media is still doing the bidding of the Cheney White House. McCain goes around spouting absurd, bombastic nonsense like this every day, but it gets buried because the corporate sponsors know he sounds like a half-wit. Meanwhile, we are regaled with hour after hour of sound-bites and repetitive superficial analyses (i.e., speculation & prognostication by the usual pundits) regarding Rev. Wright and portions of comments he has made or is rumored to have made.

Rev. Wright is a man with opinions and a right to state them publicly. But he's not running for President, and he doesn't speak for or represent the candidate he is associated with. So who keeps trying to publicize Rev. Wright's every move while manipulating the coverage to conjure up some phony controversy? Who decides to plaster Rev. Wright's picture alongside dire predictions for Obama on the front page, while hiding items illustrating McCain's dementia / senility well in the back pages?

Cheney and Rove (or their wretched minions) are merely doing what they've been doing since 2000 - manipulating the media with influence peddling and intimidation in order to secure a third term for BushCo. And the media houses play right along, anything for a quick buck, a 'scoop', or an 'exclusive' interview.

Posted April 29, 2008 12:29 PM

Posted on April 29, 2008 12:29

Zathras:

A full defense of Sen. McCain's approach to foreign and national security affairs will have to come from someone other than me.

McCain has a long record in this area, one that reflects better than average judgment overall, but at the moment he appears to be a candidate in the general election who is still unsure that he really has the GOP nomination. This is reflected in a mix of positions intended to appeal to most voters (and that are generally consistent with those McCain held before the campaign began) and positions clearly adopted to appeal to the hard core of the Republican Party, the people who still admire President Bush. In an actual McCain administration, these two orientations could not coexist peacefully.

Having said that, I would point out that what we now call the G8 originated as a periodic gathering of the leaders of the major democracies. The Nixon administration thought it wise for the heads of governments sharing similar values to meet without being encumbered by hordes of staff and the restrictions of institutional protocol -- or by the participation of Communist dictatorships. This was not a radical approach, or one motivated by some new hostility to non-Western countries, but was instead an initiative to enable the democracies to increase their options to respond to challenges outside the security field in a timely way.

The G8 has grown beyond that vision; in many ways it has grown into precisely the kind of institution that Nixon's administration sought to bypass. In McCain's place I would be calling for expanding the G8 but convening it less frequently, say, every other year. In the years it did not meet I would attempt to resurrect the kind of informal council Nixon sought to create; its purpose would be less expansive than what McCain proposes, but its membership would be similar.

The fact is that China remains a country in which power is monopolized by the state, and Russia persists in seeking to undermine the independence of neighboring countries freed from the oppression of the old Soviet empire. No amount of American goodwill can paper over the serious differences between the governments of these countries and ours. Because once admitted to a large forum like the G8 their withdrawal for any reason would be regarded as a major diplomatic failure, the temptation to gloss over objectionable policy moves by either Russia or China -- whether Russian efforts to dismember Georgia or Chinese manipulation of the yuan -- would be considerable. It is therefore undesirable for an expanded G8, whether one thinks of this as "the councils of power" or not, to be the only forum in which the major powers interact with one another.

Periodic meetings among heads of government, representing major countries sharing democratic values, are a necessary and valuable thing, provided both the purposes and the limitations of such a forum are clearly understood beforehand. McCain's "League of Democracies," as he has described it, is grandiose and impractical, but contains at its core the important recognition that the free countries of the world can and should rest common action on their common values, as they have so often in the past.

Posted April 29, 2008 11:31 AM

Posted on April 29, 2008 11:31

Amir:

Just wanted to say, keep up the good work, Fareed. One of the few major media people out there who actually concentrate on important things.

Posted April 29, 2008 11:31 AM

Posted on April 29, 2008 11:31

lila:

Anyone who saw Bush's morning press conference

and who stil considers McCain, his foreign

policy clone , a realistic candidate---

Speak up. Show yourself to be an idiot.

The news conference was a horrid mix blundering

and outright lies. It was freaky.

Posted April 29, 2008 11:11 AM

Posted on April 29, 2008 11:11

Jim Hickland:

McCain's foreign policy approach cements a completely overlooked facet of his campaign for President. What people and our vaunted press fail to think about is that we're not really going to vote for a man, we are really voting thousands of bureaucrats who will rush in to fill the policy and administrative posts. If enough people vote for McCain, then he'll appoint/nominate the same corrupt incompetant crowd that's destroyed this nation over the past 8 years. Fortunately, McCain is a senile old coot that can barely string enough sentences together to form an intelligent paragraph. Eventually people will turn on him

Jim Hickland

Posted April 29, 2008 10:34 AM

Posted on April 29, 2008 10:34

Speranza:

Here's the thing. Statements like McCain's - and the absence of reaction to its absurdity - prove one thing for sure: America is now frightened of the world. If these were the words of a school boy about someone in the playground we'd have to ask, "What is he frightened of?" The answer is clear in this case. America is frightened that it has run out of juice and that it no longer has the character or wit to be able to pull itself out of the mire. It's going to be a long fall.

Posted April 29, 2008 10:32 AM

Posted on April 29, 2008 10:32

Robert Myers:

US politicians, indeed US citizens need to embrace a foreign policy that isn’t based on the presumption of always having foreign enemies. And, we need to significantly cut the military budget as part of this.

Posted April 29, 2008 8:27 AM

Posted on April 29, 2008 08:27

DAE:

As regards foreign policy, I'm of the age where I thought that no president could be worse than LB "how many kids have you killed today" J, then came Richard "Cambodian Incursion" Nixon, who could be worse than that? How about Ronald "Iran-Contra" Reagan, and the worst of the lot now reigning. Well it seems they all may be trumped by John 'know-nothing" McCain.

Posted April 29, 2008 8:27 AM

Posted on April 29, 2008 08:27

_kt_:

Could someone explain what the G8 does that is unique? We've got the WTO for trade and the UN for diplomacy. Is it just a rich guys club where we talk about how to arrange things for the benefit of the rich guys? If so, isn't that kind of obnoxious? I don't think I know enough about the G8 to evaluate McCain's proposal.

Posted April 29, 2008 6:33 AM

Posted on April 29, 2008 06:33

Ali:

Some one should tell Mr. McCain that the Cold War is over and there were no winners....just two losers, one lost early and went bankrupt, the second one is following the same